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Indiana getting closer !

I agree that it has come a long way. I think you can compromise here to get something done but then come right back the next session and try to get back the concessions. Its how they play!! We need to play the same way. Everyone should just get used to playing the political game every session cause if we ever quit playing we will find ourselves back to square one. Its how we got so far in the hole in the first place. I just want to say "Way to go" to all the people in Indiana who have worked their tails off getting this far. Keep up the fight. Act happy with what you get and then just turn around the next session and ask for more. Then you can ask for importation, No DNR money, etc. One step at a time...Good Luck!
 
One of the key things we put in this piece of legislature is the the DNR "cannot" make any rule changes that affects our ability to operate.  Nobody want the fox watching the chicken house but we have went to great lenghts to assure they cant take advantage of us as they have in the past.  This weeks discussions and movement was put on hold so the legislators could try and get Indiana off the national news over the religous freedom act. lol
 
Correct me if I’m wrong.  If HB1453 passes next week then any and all Indiana preserves that meet the criteria will be licensed and open for business this Fall.  They will be open with all of the rules and regulations that are proposed in the bill.  Rules and regulations that are agreed upon by the legislature, DNR BOAH and Indiana Deer Farmers.


 


If the bill does not pass the senate then everyone with one acre can hunt deer this fall as long as they have a permit to raise deer.  No rules, no season, no fees to the state!  As it stands right now the DNR does not have the right to regulate the industry as the courts ruled. It will be the wild west of deer hunting.


 


Why wouldn’t they pass it so they can regulate it and tack on fees.
 
The anti-preserve hunting community that has fought this for years ! There are several, the bow huntets and the other deer hunters groups.
 
Todd, Your analogy is correct.  The opposition thinks they can have my court case overturned in the supreme court.  We won in circuit court and then in apellate court and now it is petitioned to the supreme court.  As you noted they should jump all over this bill.  The common sense opposition that we have been working with realize this, the radicals are another story.  If the bill is not passed and supreme court rules in our favor they are gonna have a tough time getting anything next session when they come begging for an agreement.
 
What you need to remember, in court, the state can not show "double-standards".   This is the main reason the state of Iowa lost it's appeal against Brakkes.  I think that much of what they are trying to restrict you from doing is unconstitutional and unenforceable.  
 
I tell you, it wears a person down after while! Here in Wisconsin the latest thing we have been fighting is sales tax. We have always charged it on the hunts. Now they are saying if a hunting preserve buys deer they should pay sales tax on the deer!! ReallY?? That is a double tax, paying tax when you buy it and then again when it is sold. I don't know another business that pays sales tax on the merchandise they are going to sell. They are spouting some baloney about hunters paying for the experience not the deer. We have told them over and over that is not the case. No one is going to pay thousands of dollars for an experience and no deer. Our pricing is all based on the deer they shoot, period. Just a lot of work to make common sense prevail!!
 
Your right, in construction, we used to pay sales tax on the materials we bought.   We did not have to pay sales tax on the end product.  Much of the end product is labor, and labor is not subject to sales tax.   You are right, it's a double tax.


 


Much of the "hunting experience" is because of your labor, and labor is not subject to sales tax.  The stocker bucks you buy are classified as farm livestock in our state, and NOT subject to sales tax.  We never paid sales tax on cattle at the sales barn.


 


You need to have a conference with Gov. Walker.  He would put this nonsense to rest.
 
Well for one thing, labor is taxable in Wis! If Home Depot buys a hammer, they don't pay sales tax on it, but the customer buying it does! We see this as just stocking our shelves so to speak. We have been working on this with our lobbyist and hope to have it resolved. Dept. of Revenue has just decided this is taxable, no change in any laws have taken place and this has never been collected or paid. So it is just out of the blue, a new interpretation of existing laws. That is arbitrary and capricious. We are trying to get a clarification of the law through the budget process. If they are successful in taxing this, this could ripple through the industry to other states. Also Revenue wants to go back 4 years and collect sales tax on all deer bought for preserves!!! Ridiculous!!
 
Most states seem to find a way to charge sales tax on even fair chase hunts. They rule in favor of the hunt being like a vacation with accommodations . Nebraska charges 11.5% on guided or outfitted hunts , Utah is I think 6.5% , most of Canada is over 9% and so on. All of government seems to want a piece of the pie. In Minnesota all taxidermy is 100% taxable at the current rate of 6.875% as it is determined that the finished product is manufactured from non taxable commodity , namely an animal harvested . So far they have left the "livestock harvest " in a high fence alone.
 
Taxidermy is taxed at the sales tax rate of 5 or 5.5% depending on the county. We think even the sales tax on the hunt is over the top. We do not charge for accommodations, no different than a fancy restaurant charges for the piano music or the "free" chips and salsa etc. people don't pay a sales tax if they purchase a steer from a farmer to butcher. But that is a fight for another day. One thing at a time! This double sales tax thing has to get straightened out!
 
Well, through some lies and deceipt the opposition has turned the senate against our industry and killed our bill.  They annouced their intentions to introduce legislation next session to ban the industry completely and will very likely succeed.  I expect some more unethical things coming from the DNR this year and for the fall of 2015 to be the end of the industry in Indiana.
 
Hear alot of different stories coming out of this state. So now that you say the industry is doomed will the truth ever be known?  Was it the deer farmers own board that took them all down because of big heads or some that put their own wallets in front of the whole states industry. Found it strange that this state never joined the ACA from the beginning. Not sure how a state can tell a person what kind of animals they can/cant raise on their own private property.
 
Problem with this state there is a select few that think there the only deer farmers in the state. And trust me... Until that changes then maybe they should shut those 10 down. And as for preserves, thank goodness for jerry bell and the others who look out for everybody and not just there self, because its turning into a broken record!!
 
Mike,  Nadefa,IDEFA, All Sponsors of Bill, Our Attorneys and Preserve owners were ALL on same page and were in total agreement of what was done and had to be done.  We asked the ACA several times to join our fight but they declined. I understand it was personal tiffs between somebody in Idefa and the ACA but pretty sad they could not put egos behind them and fight for the greater cause.   Farm Bureau Ag Law foundation has been our biggest supporter, Nadefa and Idefa both contributed big time in the appeal.  
 
Mike, 


They joined after I asked.  I was the rep while I was on the board.  They gave the ACA $500.  However, nobody would discuss any of the issues when I brought them up like the program standards.  They just didnt care.  


as for many stories,  its just like a disease that has many treatments.  Usually none of them are any good.
 
Can they really totally shut down all deer farms and hunting ranches in that state?  What if i want to raise my own deer to butcher when and where i see fit?
 
The preserves will be regulated out within 1 yr. The DNR is corrupt enough  and has the means where they will find CWD in the state which will then shut the farms down shortly after. Without a terminal market only hobby farmers will remain.
 
Thats the cold hard facts Jerrilee.  Everybody involved in this fight noted above is well aware of where we are.
 

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