The day has come...

Scrapelineranch said:

I feel for those effected by all of this. Excusing my ignorance, is it possible to transmit this disease (CWD) hypothetically speaking...intentionally; specifically, by drawing a transmittance source from a positive animal and injecting (by any means) into a healthy animal? I tell you truthfully, I'm not a conspiracy ***** but that's how much I trust our adversaries. That's Biblical, by the way.

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I suppose it would be theoretically possible, but since the only test for CWD (currently) involves the animal being dead, you would have to kill the animal, confirm that it has CWD, then mix it into feed that another animal would consume. There may be another way, but the animal still has to be dead to confirm it has CWD.

A more likely possibility would be faking samples.

Why is nobody talking about VA and their wild deer with CWD? Oh.. I know...because they're not finding them on deer farms!! Oh, the hypocrisy!

Just saying...yes, the source would knowing be from a dead positive source. Would it have to be transmitted from a food source only?

Got a call yesterday from the Vet at the Minnesota Zoo. He wanted to invite me up there to look at the facilities. They are bringing in moose and exotic cervids to the Zoo to replace their aging populations. He said they have special statutes for Zoos that allow them to bring them in. He just wanted us to look at the Zoo to see that it wouldn't effect our cervids.



Understand,, I support the Minnesota Zoo, and it is nice they have these exhibitions to take the kids and grandkids to. But why do we have "double standards"? We can't bring in animals without 5 years of testing behind them, and from free status zones, But the BAH looks the other way when a state agency wants to import animals.



I am confused !!



Gary

Daniel,



I think the Pa. deer breeders have be proactive on this. You need to go to the public and tell them that with the level of testing your farms are doing, you don't have CWD. Hunters can come to preserves and hunt with confidence that you have healthy deer. Explain to the public that you test your breeding herds at 100%. This allows you to find positive animals when they occur, such as the one recently found in Pa.



Also quote the federal findings done by APHIS

on page 22. "the scientific knowledge we have suggests that CWD is not highly infectious".

on page 23. "movement of animals under 81.3 already presents a low risk of spreading CWD, even without considering the low risk associated with the pathway of transportation through a State".

APHIS is the leading animal health agency in the US. Use their finding to support your industry.



Be proactive and show that your testing program works. When USDA found a mad cow case in Ca. this spring, you should read how they slanted the article to reassure the public. Again, data supports your industry of having a healthy herd.



We always go negative on this, when a case pops up. We need to turn the table and go proactive.



Gary

In answer to Hershey's Huntin Haven, why I said Kentucky will be the next state to find CWD - just that any state that hasn't found it yet will find it eventually if they are looking. The more deer farms there are in a state the more tests that are being done and sooner or later it will show up somewhere. Eventually every state with cervids will have it - why because it has always been there and they are looking for it. Maybe once everyone has it they will get over it - because there isn't anything to gain by shutting down movement.

Dr. Ramussen from the Mn. Zoo called me and invited us to look over where they are bringing in and housing moose and exotic cervid for display. He basically said they were exempted from our import qualifications. I think he is trying to satisfy any concerns we have about bring in untested, unmonitored animals.

I don't think any of us object to the zoo wanting to display animals. I think we all support the Mn. Zoo... But my question is why the double-standards. These agencies can't live under the rules they impose on us. We have to live and operate under the "rules", and they can't function with our rules. I'm confused!!



Gary

Hollowroad Whitetails said:

Jeff23:



You bring up a great point about how captive animals are getting so much more publicity than the wild ones found throughout the united states. Unfortunately that is not something we can ever stop. We can only control what we have control over. The words of the PDFA president in his article following this disappointing news should be considered carefully by everyone. We must keep our discussions among ourselves and stick to the facts and try to avoid rumors and speculation. The fact of the matter is that this news is going to have a significant negative impact on the deer industry in PA. My biggest fear is that preserve hunters and potential future preserve hunters will start believing that farm raised deer are unhealthy and diseased. Of course, nothing can be further from the truth. Right now, an increase of hunters is what we need to help the industry and I don't think this could have happened at a worst time.

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I think all these facts are related to one another. For example, if they are going to impose hardships on the captive cervid industry (some of which are oaky and will help build confidence in the industry), what are they doing in those cases that are found in the wild? Part of our facts should include the fact that there are CWD positive deer showing up in the mountains of Virginia in the wild. This fact discredits the misinformation being spread that this is a "deer farm" problem. All the puzzle pieces go together to give us the complete picture.

I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way, but: Are all of you, as deer farmers, going to evaluate whether or not you have deer that have a common origin in any way to the deer that tested positive? Is this discussed, or is it taboo? I'm just wondering, and I mean no offense.

Hey Wild Rivers Whitetails, I talked to another deer farmer in the state and he agreed with you. Mainly because we have imported Elk into the state from CWD states or state. So he said.

Wild Rivers Whitetails said:

In answer to Hershey's Huntin Haven, why I said Kentucky will be the next state to find CWD - just that any state that hasn't found it yet will find it eventually if they are looking. The more deer farms there are in a state the more tests that are being done and sooner or later it will show up somewhere. Eventually every state with cervids will have it - why because it has always been there and they are looking for it. Maybe once everyone has it they will get over it - because there isn't anything to gain by shutting down movement.

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Exactly...could not agree more!!!

Wild deer don't know where there is a state line and if one state has it odds are the next one will too.



Talking about the Minnesota zoo, the state of Wisconsin wants to bring in elk to release into the wild. I thought they were going to come from Kentucky, but not from a CWD or TB monitored herd. Now does that make any sense??? If they are releasing them they should at least be 5 years CWD monitored and TB tested!!!!!

This TB testing is a bunch of crap too......just went through the first round today with my deer and forgot how frustrating, stressful and costly it is.....not to mention very unfair and hard on the deer.....now I have some limping around and all for a much to do about nothing!! I am so sick and tired of this over regulations on this industry.......if we have any chance of surviving we MUST come together as one force and bring up a class-action suit against the powers to be who are forcing this injustice upon our industry......I wish we could do it....but it seems like no one is interested in something like this....Or yes maybe a small handful..........I know this will be the last time I put my animals through this TB testing......if they don't have something different in three years then I guess I will either throw in the towel or not have a certified herd.........I am done with their nonsense!! I have way to much respect for these awesome animals to put them through this unnecessary testing......it just tears me up inside and that's not why I got into this ......

Wild Rivers Whitetails said:

Wild deer don't know where there is a state line and if one state has it odds are the next one will too.



Talking about the Minnesota zoo, the state of Wisconsin wants to bring in elk to release into the wild. I thought they were going to come from Kentucky, but not from a CWD or TB monitored herd. Now does that make any sense??? If they are releasing them they should at least be 5 years CWD monitored and TB tested!!!!!

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Missouri did the same thing! Now they have lost several from not being acclimated to their new surroundings.



Why if they (MDC) were going to release Elk in Mo. why would they have not bought them from a Mo. Elk breeder?

Whitetail Sanctuary said:

Missouri did the same thing! Now they have lost several from not being acclimated to their new surroundings.



Why if they (MDC) were going to release Elk in Mo. why would they have not bought them from a Mo. Elk breeder?

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Wayne why would they support a tax payer in their own state? That would not be the way the government works. I am so sick if all this crap these idiots are putting us and the animals thru. I for one am seriously thinking of throwing in the towel. Feed prices are high, drugs keep going up, testing keeps going up, animal prices are low, have no problem selling bucks, but can't give a doe away.

Amen. Wild Rivers Whitetails

Robert,



That's a very interesting observation. Would you tell me where I can look to find these facts. We are looking for all the facts on CWD that we can use in our fight here in Iowa. I haven't heard of this one before and because we are trying to stick with facts only, I would like to research what you are saying about the trade with Japan a little further. I'd like to find more info on CWD coming from Japan.

All these states just need to look to Wyoming and Colorado to see what they are doing with CWD - basically nothing. They know it is in the wild and there isn't anything they can do about it. They've known they had it for something like 40 years now - what problems has it caused to date - none. They may shut down an area for hunting for a while and then they reopen it. It is just a fact of life out there - well guess what Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, New York, PA, and all the rest of the states out there - it is a fact of life here too - so get over it!

I think it's pretty safe to say that SHARP SHOOTER BULLETS sanctioned by the DNR have killed more ''healthy'' deer than CWD ever has...at least here in Illinois.



Their(DNR) cure worse than the cause.....???????????

Wild Rivers I am not sure if I am reading your post right.....but if your saying we need to just except it and shrug this CWD and all the other unrealistic testing they have us doing on our deer off..... I have to respectfully disagree......we cannot continue to just say oh well there's nothing we can do about it it's a fact of life.....we need to stand up for ourselves and fight the good fight.....I just wish we would do it........but it seems not as important to everyone else I guess......Jack has been warning us for years now about what happened to him in his State......and we all just sweep his warnings under the rug.....I just don't get it anymore......

OK, So CWD has been documented in the wild less than 70 miles from where it shows up on a farm in PA. There are two rehab facilities where they take wild fawns and reintroduce them into the wild, one is less than 20 miles. Is CWD from the farm or is it from the wild?



October 06, 2009|By Gary R. Blockus OF THE MORNING CALL





Thousands of hunters who took to Pennsylvania's woods and fields for the archery antlered deer season opener last Saturday may have unintentionally poisoned the state's deer herd.



Walt Cottrell sounded the alarm loud and clear on Monday morning during the opening session of the two-day quarterly meetings of the Pennsylvania Game Commission at the Holiday Inn near the Sports Complex........



Cottrell, the Wildlife Veterinarian for the Pennsylvania Game Commission, gave a presentation on Chronic Wasting Disease, a disease that affects members of the Cervidae family, which includes deer and elk...........



No cases of CWD have been identified in Pennsylvania, but the disease has been found in 15 states and two Canadian provinces. One of the ways it is spread is through deer urine, which archery deer hunters and some firearms deer hunters use as both a lure and masking scent.



"Saskatchewan has already banned urine lures and nine states are considering it," Cottrell told the members of the commission.



Commissioner Thomas E. Boop of Lycoming County, stating that nine out of 10 archery hunters in Pennsylvania use deer urine as a lure, asked if there is a way for manufacturers to certify that urine is CWD free, but Cottrell said there is not.



"I think a lot of hunters haven't thought about this," said Boop, who asked that the commission issue a warning about using deer urine as soon as possible.



PGC president Gregory J. Isabella of Philadelphia, who represents the Southeast Region, said that he is an archery hunter who has used deer urine in the past, but will stop using it immediately.



Cottrell said he would recommend and support an immediate ban on the use of deer urine, as well as the feeding of deer with food that may have been grown in contaminated soil from other states.



Currently, it is unknown how long the CWD prions, the altered proteins that carry the disease, remain active. ........



http://articles.mcall.com/2009-10-06/sports/4453405_1_deer-hunters-firearms-deer-antlered















A second thing to consider is how young deer, particularly young bucks between 8 and 18 months of age, often disperse from their mother's home range. During his study on the movement activities of white-tailed deer on the Desoto National Wildlife Refuge in Nebraska, Kurt VerCauteren found that dispersing yearling deer traveled as far as 12-15 miles from their former home range; some of the sub-adult does traveled as far as 40 to 50 miles. Chris Rosenberry and others found that 70 percent of the 6-18 month old bucks dispersed from their 3,300-acre study area; 50 percent dispersed an average of 3.7 miles, with some animals traveling as far as 36 miles. One yearling buck tagged in central Minnesota was shot 165 miles from where it was tagged; an adult doe was found 85 miles from where it was tagged.



A third thing to consider is how far bucks may travel during the rut. Dr. James Kroll is reported to have said that bucks in Alberta may occupy a 3,000 -acre core area, and they may travel circuits of 20-25 miles during the rut. We must also consider the fact that CWD may linger in contaminated soil for years. Scientists have found that scrapies can stay in the soil of infected areas for up to three years. This means that, even after the complete removal of infected animals, some areas (particularly wintering areas, and areas where deer are supplied with feed bait, or minerals) may cause new infections several years later.

Dennis - I may be speaking out of turn here but I believe Wild Rivers is speaking to individual ''States and DNR within'' when he says ''get over it''.