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Sorry Wild Rivers Whitetails and Keith Warren I was on a rant and forgot about the good job you both are doing. That is the exact media we need TV catches the eye and the public but more shows are needed to change public opinion.
 
Jack said:
Mike I believe we have never made any headway with the public that are deer are healthy by testing. Fact is we have never proved anything to the health people or the DNR. The health people don't usually stand up to the DNR, at least not in Montana. We have tested the crap out of our herds both for CWD and TB and at least every week when I talk to people on the road looking at my animals someone will say they sure don't look sick. They expect them to be sick from all the bad press we get from the DNR and wildlife people. Our industry has never taken our fight to the public to offset the bad press from DNR. I have preached the fact we need to educate the public as they are the ones that can turn on us when we have a CWD positive. Our bad that is for sure. As soon as a CWD is found on a game farm that State's critics and DNR takes it to the press for more regulation on the game farm, no more harvest facilities, no more new game farms. Laws are put in effect and we have another Montana. Montana lost all these things when a case of CWD was found. I see every State waits till a CWD positive is found and they know one will be found sooner or later in every States game farm and this agenda is what they wait for to crush the industry in that State. This industry is going on the defensive I'm told to try to stop this behavior from States and educiate the public. All I can say is it's about time this industry took the fight to the public.
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Oh i agree jack but if we didnt test then we would not have a leg to stand on. Good press or bad. When Ny found the cases we had they tracked it down and found that it came from a taxidermist that also had deer. Brought in deer parts from states that have cwd.



Untill they get a grip and figure out that alot of this could be stopped by having laws that ban the movement of deer parts from know cwd wild herds this will never end.



I read where this doe in Pa was born and bred on the farm in question but with Pa allowing deer to be moved from farm to farm without permits they now figure this deer was on atleast 3 different farms. Now its going to take some time to try and figure where this deer may have gotten cwd. I guess just like most, She did not die from it or show any signs of it. Thats what these higher ups have to get through their heads. These deer be it wild or pen are not dieing from or showing signs of cwd.
 
No Mike...and I mean no disrespect........my set up is no different than most.. And better than a lot I am sure.....and no I do not bring any of my problems on myself.....these are issues that arise from stressed deer just being stressed deer..........and a lot of people will tell you of all the head aches they have from testing their deer....heck you just had one die because of testing.......I am not saying we should not have to test our deer.....I am saying it does not need to be the aggressive testing they are forcing on us at this time. We are made to test our deer more than the beef industry where their product ends up in the mainstream food system of our country.......now that in itself should tell you something is wrong!
 
Yes this is a CWD post but news flash......EHD!!!!! Killing way more deer ,(wild and farmed) than CWD is by a mile and it is spread by the bugs jumping from one "wild" deer to another to us . Turn it around....they are infecting our deer from their wild ones . They (DNR and USDA) have to kill all of the wild ones and spray all of the USA to stop this affecting us. How would they like it thrown back in their faces. Same issue...disease that kills a deer....one a terrible killer each year and one hardly making any sick in all of the states that are stuck testing and jumping through all of Their hoops. We kill ours....they kill theirs....see how fast they sputter on that. (No disrespect to anyone dealing with CWD) Jim
 
I really don't care where CWD came from either and again I'll say test for something long enough and you'll find it somewhere somehow . What bugs me is we have all ALLOWED the regs to keep piling up on us . When do we decide to fight back ? When do we quit rolling over and taking it ? When do we say enough of the unnesassary new regulations is enough . How long do we need to TB test ? When is it long enough ? Why did CWD make us TB and Brucellosis test the heck out of our deer and elk ? We have been suckerd into doing all the DNR's testing . Hell I really don't mind CWD testing an animal , it's DEAD who cares it's not hard on them . My problem is the cost ! Why can't we either take our own samples or become certified as a herd or something ? It shouldn't cost us over $100.00 to cull an animal . It's bad enough we can't sell allot of our doe's but should we have to PAY to cull them and put them in the freezer too ? Should we have to test thousands and thousands of animals for an unending lenth of time for TB ? How did TB get to be such an issue with CWD ? There has to be something we can do if we stick together and bitch alittle or take our case to court . Seems we never do anything much to fight back , and I wonder why . Just an opinion .
 
Ok, in post #60 Tim Matthews said that some states are considering banning the use of doe urine... to prevent the spread of CWD. My question is if deer can spread CWD via prions in the urine... why isn't there a urine test for CWD? Instead of shooting every deer on your farm they could just test the pee right? Cause I haven't heard how exactly CWD is passed from one deer to another. Could it be something like cancer?



When we (dad and I) were traveling this fall we were often asked about CWD. Especially in Iowa. We told hundreds (possibly thousands) of students the facts about CWD and deer farms. They seemed to understand. And by the way... Deer farmers in MN and WI are not the only people fed up with the DNR. I did not find one DNR supporter this year.
 
Dillan Porter said:
Ok, in post #60 Tim Matthews said that some states are considering banning the use of doe urine... to prevent the spread of CWD. My question is if deer can spread CWD via prions in the urine... why isn't there a urine test for CWD? Instead of shooting every deer on your farm they could just test the pee right? Cause I haven't heard how exactly CWD is passed from one deer to another. Could it be something like cancer?



When we (dad and I) were traveling this fall we were often asked about CWD. Especially in Iowa. We told hundreds (possibly thousands) of students the facts about CWD and deer farms. They seemed to understand. And by the way... Deer farmers in MN and WI are not the only people fed up with the DNR. I did not find one DNR supporter this year.
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Great point!!! Dillon





Scott Neeb

www.chanllowfarms.com
 
Thats just it. They dont 100% know the facts on cwd and they use deer farms as the scape goat. I dont see a bunch of laws on the transport of hunter harvested deer being brought out of cwd states. Again, Thats where Ny cwd cases were found to be from. Untill they do something about the real issues, Nothing will change!
 
There is work being done on early detection of prion disease.

There is a human varient,& post mortem diagnosis isn't acceptable, as you all know.



Its hoped that a good early detection method ,say using a blood sample,could also help with a cure,or to prevent, or at least abate the spread of prion disease.



To keep on top of information,read beyond just CWD, look at the research on CJD,BSE & several others.Hopefully this might impress that prion disease is taken VERY seriously.



Shipping urine is a guaranteed way to transport prions to new areas.I'm sorry to say, but any good biosecurity plan would have put a halt to this practice years ago.



Cheers Sharkey



EDIT



Prions have remained present & able to reinfect for over 20 years in soil samples from Iceland. Food for thought.
 
Hey like I said I don't mind testing for CWD , the dang deer is DEAD , it's not hard on them ! What in the heck does that have to do with TB and Brucellosis ? It was the finding of CWD that lead to all the TB testing ... What do they have in common ? Whats soooooo dangerous about CWD that we can't send in our own samples. Why is it our states no longer help share the cost yet they haven't relaxed any rulings ? Whats with that ? You know what if we can come up with a vaccine, we'll be able to protect our farm raised deer , What in the heck will they do about the wild ones ? NOTHING !! This has been a one way street from the start and we farmers are the only ones traveling on it !! If I never buy another deer and never add one to my herd yet I someday get a positive CWD do I get to shoot the DNR's deer for infecting mine and sue them ?
 
Yep wooden..awesome...awesome....post......Hey I love my Whitetails more than anything...next to my God and my son as well as my family.........listen......Tuesday I had my second day of testing for the TB readings on my herd.......one suspect....all goes well .......so we think....well my best bud.......my friend, who I went out and shared my time with many...many ..many times, died over night due to the Over regulations on our industry.......it's WRONG....ITS NOT FAIR TO OUR WHITETAILS....and Mike......for YOU to tell ME I bring it on to myself......YOU my friend are a jerk....I am sorry.......for coming off like this but .....let me tell you something ....this guy meant the world to me.....and he didn't deserve to die like this........you can talk all you want about testing.....and say all you want about it making US look good.......PLEASE....GIVE ME A BRAKE..........we have gained NO Ground by any of this testing......IF YOU HAVE ANY....ANY...ANY RESPECT TOWARDS YOUR ANIMALS....YOU WILL REALIZE THIS TESTING IS NOT ONLY OVER THE TOP.......BUT EXTREMELY HARD ON OUR ANIMALS......I can't walk out in my pens everyday any longer and look MY Animals (That God put me in charge of) in the eyes any longer and put them through this injustice.....yes we may need to test Some.....BUT NOT LIKE THIS.........it is NOT RIGHT....and if you think different......you have no business raising these awesome Animals!!
 
Depending on what you are doing with your deer, you may need to TB test only deer you are moving to a hunting preserve if it is in your state. If you aren't selling to other farms that may be all you need to do. Brucellosis testing is only required if you are moving deer from one state to another - and then only one test. The brucellosis certified farms have put that burden on themselves - it is not required. Just because some farms choose to be brucellosis certified doesn't mean everyone has to be.



The government - both state and federal - have deemed that CWD isn't important enough to spend any money on testing. If they don't think it is important enough to support testing, why is anyone requiring this??
 
Dillan Porter said:
Ok, in post #60 Tim Matthews said that some states are considering banning the use of doe urine... to prevent the spread of CWD. My question is if deer can spread CWD via prions in the urine... why isn't there a urine test for CWD? Instead of shooting every deer on your farm they could just test the pee right? Cause I haven't heard how exactly CWD is passed from one deer to another. Could it be something like cancer?



When we (dad and I) were traveling this fall we were often asked about CWD. Especially in Iowa. We told hundreds (possibly thousands) of students the facts about CWD and deer farms. They seemed to understand. And by the way... Deer farmers in MN and WI are not the only people fed up with the DNR. I did not find one DNR supporter this year.
Click to expand...



tim knows his sh%^ , and is a great person. and he is right , up in CANDA you can not use pee /dump on ground , in fear of spreading CWD but they can ship it to the usa ??? , nice point and good job
 
ddwhitetails said:
Mike I will agree with the very last sentence in your post FOR SURE... but everything else....you are wrong...sorry......if you have any respect for your animals you raise you would fight to have this excessive testing banned or at the very least researched so it is not so evasive on our Whitetails....I am sorry but in this world we live in..... there has got to be with out a doubt a better way to test these animals than what we have to go through not to mention the poor animals......I am going to wake up bright an early tomorrow to go stress the crap out of my herd for a second time.......let's see.....deer hitting the fence (and you can say yours are tame and don't hit the fence...well when they learn the gun it don't matter!)... darts sticking half way in the deer, bucks that don't want to go down beating the crap out of others that are knocked out...just to mention a few things I have to look forward too in the morning......come on!!! are you kidding me!! You think this is ok?!! I think Not!
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Well dennis i should not even give you a reply but i will in just a few words. If you call your post above not bringing this upon yourself then i dont know what to tell you. Deer hitting the fence. Yup happens at times whenever you work deer. No matter the reason!



Darts sticking half way out of the deer? Really!!! Is it not you that has control of that gun or saying about who is darting your deer. Really a dart buried half way into a deer and how much do you care for your deer??



Bucks not seperated when you do your testing?? You say you have a good handling facility and you dont split your deer up at testing? You care how much for your deer?



If we dont have testing...We dont have deer! Its that simple right now. Right or Wrong. Trust me when i say being in the know of a states assoc has its benefits and about a post on another thread about not being able to get permits. By the time the waves settle after this Pa case of cwd there very well could be mass destruction on many farms in Pa and sad to say a few other states!!! I hope your not one of them!
 
Mike........you are either very ...very...very lost......or just don't have a clue....I have been in the deer business for many years and know how to take care of my deer....my bucks are grouped with every thought in mind... They have their pecking order down and know who is who in their pens....they are kept in the same group for years with an adult deer to keep them all on the up an up so to speak.....but when 90% of them are down and out and one is still fighting the drug ....pissed off at the world and then starts beating the crap out of the others is ...NOT BRINGING IT UPON MYSELF ......you are way out there on that comment my friend!!....either you are lacking in experience or your just looking for a fight........I can promise you that has happened to many others in this industry who care every bit as much as I do about my animals.....As far as the ONE dart that was stuck half way in my doe....who happened to FALL DOWN ON THE DART DRIVING IT IN DEEPER.....was again.....NOT BRINING IT UPON MYSELF!! WISH I COULD HAVE TOLD HER WITCH WAY TO FALL!!.....Mike you are in the wrong on this one and you need to back OFF!! I

would never tell you that you don't care for your animals...and for you to try and say I don't is a bunch of crap......again....I lost my best breeder buck this morning...he was my everything as far as the deer go...so Mike....I don't need to hear your crap!! I don't care what you think...cause it means nothing to me after hearing your past posts it shows what you know........I am emotional right now.....you have not a clue my feelings for my animals...especially the one I lost today FOR NO GOOD RESAON!!.....you can believe what you want Mike......the day will come when you have had enough!!
 
ddwhitetails said:
Mike........you are either very ...very...very lost......or just don't have a clue....I have been in the deer business for many years and know how to take care of my deer....my bucks are grouped with every thought in mind... They have their pecking order down and know who is who in their pens....they are kept in the same group for years with an adult deer to keep them all on the up an up so to speak.....but when 90% of them are down and out and one is still fighting the drug ....pissed off at the world and then starts beating the crap out of the others is ...NOT BRINGING IT UPON MYSELF ......you are way out there on that comment my friend!!....either you are lacking in experience or your just looking for a fight........I can promise you that has happened to many others in this industry who care every bit as much as I do about my animals.....As far as the ONE dart that was stuck half way in my doe....who happened to FALL DOWN ON THE DART DRIVING IT IN DEEPER.....was again.....NOT BRINING IT UPON MYSELF!! WISH I COULD HAVE TOLD HER WITCH WAY TO FALL!!.....Mike you are in the wrong on this one and you need to back OFF!! I

would never tell you that you don't care for your animals...and for you to try and say I don't is a bunch of crap......again....I lost my best breeder buck this morning...he was my everything as far as the deer go...so Mike....I don't need to hear your crap!! I don't care what you think...cause it means nothing to me after hearing your past posts it shows what you know........I am emotional right now.....you have not a clue my feelings for my animals...especially the one I lost today FOR NO GOOD RESAON!!.....you can believe what you want Mike......the day will come when you have had enough!!
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Good Luck to ya Dennis!! Wish i could tell ya more!
 
Dennis,

Really sorry to hear of your loss today, that just sucks.



I agree with you that we are having to put our animals through many undue stresses. Brucellosis for instance, I don't believe there has ever been a whitetail deer diagnosed with brucellosis, but yet we are required to test to move interstate. Why is this?



If we ever get the blood T.B. test that should be a big help. Buuttt will we ever see it? Sure hope so.



Hope you have better days ahead Dennis.
 
Barry,

Thanks....I ....I am just having a real hard time with it.....he was my bud.....raised him on the bottle.....he was so stinking tame it was crazy......When I had a bad day I would go down and tell him my problems....and he listened...LOL....as long as he got to lick my arm.....LOL.......I feel I left him down.....he didn't deserve to die like this......I planned on letting him live out his days on the farm.......got a lot of deer and I love them all....but he had a special something....try not to get attached ...but it happens.......I will never forget him...I will post a pic of him...he is on my website......red 29.....I will never forget him .....man never thought I could get love from a deer...but he proved me wrong!!
 

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