The day has come...

Dennis, Just read the post and feel for you on this one. I lost two of the animals I loved last year that I said would live out their life here. The one did as she was 19 years old the other one died because I wanted to see antlers on the breeder buck. That cost the life of my favorite doe. There are no antlers on my bucks or bulls this year but the lesson was a hard one to learn.

Jane some of us Brucellosis test yes so we can sell our deer out of state. I mean we're required to TB test so whats the difference ? I mean the stress of handling the deer is there anyway being we're TB testing the hell out of them, the Brucellosis is like 10 seconds of drawing a bit of blood , yes it's extra but the stress is already there doing the unnesassary TB tests . I don't think any of us would Brucellosis test if we weren't made to handle our animals to TB test . TB testing has NOTHING to do with CWD and yet the TB testing became manditory because of CWD . Your missing the point ! I've even heard of deer being sold at sales that were advertized as Brucellosis certified and they weren't ... now that would be nasty to a person's certification and all those troubles once all that testing and stress was implemented on our animals wouldn't it ? Dennis sorry for your lose and your right deer just aren't made to be handled in that manner (chute/ darting makes no difference) or that often . If there were problems with TB in the deer industry, ya I could see it but there ISN'T and how long to test and test is long enough ?

We are not brucellosis certified and don't intend to be. It is true that it is easy to do while you TB test but the cost to do it on 600 deer is ridiculous. We sell very few deer out of state and in fact have pretty much gotten out of the breeding stock market other than selling semen. Also if you are selling fawns you don't need to test them.



I don't recall TB testing being required because of CWD. I don't think it had anything to do with it. Tb testing was there before CWD but most farms were doing it on an individual basis when they sold a deer. When folks were selling a lot of breeding stock it just became simpler to do the whole herd testing. Maybe if you are only selling to a hunting preserve it is more cost effective to only test those animals.

Sorry about that Dennis, I know it plain SUCKS!

Dennis, Sorry to hear about your buck. I think most of us have had some kind of experience with losing animals and it is never fun.



One suggestion if I may, is that you are not required to test all your animals in just one day. You have time where you can do 10 or 20 animals one day and so on. This may be some help moving forward but obviously wont change the past.

thanks Josh that would have been easier but probably more expensive in the long run.......I appreciate the tip though......also thanks everyone for your kind words......this was a hard one to take.......really has me wondering why I am in the deer business.....got a lot of thinking and praying to do in the near future as to whether or not continue or throw in the towel.......again thanks for the advice and kind words.....Mike, I apologize for my harshness yesterday but it was an extremely bad day and you hit a nerve.....sorry.....

ddwhitetails said:

thanks Josh that would have been easier but probably more expensive in the long run.......I appreciate the tip though......also thanks everyone for your kind words......this was a hard one to take.......really has me wondering why I am in the deer business.....got a lot of thinking and praying to do in the near future as to whether or not continue or throw in the towel.......again thanks for the advice and kind words.....Mike, I apologize for my harshness yesterday but it was an extremely bad day and you hit a nerve.....sorry.....

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Not a problem and i am sorry you lost a deer. You have to understand when i say we need testing..Its not that i agree with it and as you know i lost a great doe myself.



With half the world against us and what we do, Our testing is one of the biggest things we have going for us. Can you imagine if we were not tested and god forbid some huge outbreak happens and we move deer all across the country with it?



We are dealing with a game animal in every state and the most sought after big game animal in north america so we have eyes watching our every move. On top of this every state relies on the monies that hunters bring in and you know what money does to some.



Just as this case of cwd is affecting about every state( Right now we cant even get permits to move inside our state) this is going to take time.

Pa had the freedom of moving deer from farm to farm inside that state. Well that was awesome or so we thought untill something like this happens and now they have a massive research going on to find out how many farms that doe it. We need permits to move even inside the state. Im afraid many farms are going to be involved in this, Not just pa but many others. All over something that has never killed a deer inside a fence.

Mike agree we need testing.,,,however, I will say it again......not to the extent that we are forced to do it......I realize we lose deer and it is apart of the business......but it does NOT need to be to the extent that it is now........I care to much for these animals to see them be tested and tested and tested when r does not have to be......it is wrong......it's over the top.....just like the cwd is........I wish they would put half the effort towards mad cow.....as the do on CWD........they don't because the beef industry won't let them....THATS WHAT WE NEED TO DO......ITS TIME TO BITE BACK! We have rolled over long enough!

ddwhitetails said:

thanks Josh that would have been easier but probably more expensive in the long run.......I appreciate the tip though......also thanks everyone for your kind words......this was a hard one to take.......really has me wondering why I am in the deer business.....got a lot of thinking and praying to do in the near future as to whether or not continue or throw in the towel.......again thanks for the advice and kind words.....Mike, I apologize for my harshness yesterday but it was an extremely bad day and you hit a nerve.....sorry.....

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sorry den , but this is just what THEY what to hear , YOUR DONE NO MORE DEER FARMS !!!!! THEN THEY HAVE WON ! IF THIS HAPPEN TO ME and in time it will i would be going nuts on them ,their going to test you guys out of buis, where is NADFA????????? when is the court case ??? that is where this is going , or when SOS , GB,FLEES , DREAM RANCH , LOSE A POWER DOE/BUCK THEN WE WILL SEE SOMETHING HAPPEN , NUFF SAID

Your right Crocket.......I am gong to hang in here for a bit....I have caught wind of some good stuff that should benefit us all in the near future if it is in deed true....... Plus I have worked hard for years to finially get the animals I have strived for.....so.....I guess for now I will keep on keeping on!!

Thats right Dennis we have all worked out butts off to breed or buy the deer we've always wanted on our farms and we shouldn't quit but instead fight for those animals and our right to own them in a respectable manner . There are way to many rules and reg's we have to all know that by now ! I don't remember having to TB test befor CWD came along to sell deer within state . I know when I first started you could buy deer within Wi without TB testing them . Then when Wi found CWD they not only implemented CWD monitoring they made TB testing a requirement too . We didn't TB test the hell out of our deer before CWD hit the fan , I know we didn't . As far as some farms not Brucellosis testing no big deal I just do it because I'm made to run the deer through the chute to TB test anyway . If I wasn't made to TB test I surely wouldn't bother Brucellosis testing either . I have however bought deer on sales that were advertized as from TB and Brucellosis certified herds and they weren't and that can lead to ton's of problems . Thing is it taught me fast , and I have never purchased another deer since and I don't plan on it ever again either. I'm quite sure if you don't test your whole herd your not allowed to sell fawns from that herd , am I wrong ? I know my vet won't sign any shipping papers without testing ?

Dennis - You know only too well that I feel your pain. Deer have a way of carving out a spot in our hearts. Not all, but certainly some, and they become very special.



I sold my last remaining 9 bucks yesterday...and I'm glad it's over. Besides the obvious intensity over tranquing bucks that are in with others with antlers, we found ourselves having huge differences of opinions with the buyer on ''how to'' score the bucks. Well, I've scored a ton of them, and I've read on the ''how to'', and I know ''how to'', and when an eighth of an inch means the difference between $700 or not...I want them measured closely. Right...and closely, not hap-hazzardly and/or wrong. So yeah, some unecessary stress was present because of this. Yes, I needed/wanted to sell these bucks, but I made it clear more than once, if we don't go by my score, or take the time to find out where and why we are having a difference, we'll just cart them right back into the pen. The buyer complied...but he did not like it...tooooo bad.

I'm a fair and honest man, and I wouldn't cheat or lie for a million dollars, yet alone for $700.



Ok, getting back to the subject...there is one buck that I sold yesterday that continues to tug on my heart this morning yet. Couldn't pet him past his ears, but he was tame and trusted me...can't help but feel I betrayed him.



I currently have 2 deer left out of the 95 I had last year. A 3 year old tame buck that I intend on finding a good home for, and a 15 year old pet doe(comes in the house tame), and we'll have her til death do us part.

I had to get out because CWD was found in my neighboring County...and it was just a matter of time before it is found in my County, which would immediately close all movement anywhere out of my County.

It sucks, because I finally got to where I wanted to be, or at least to a level I was satisfied with, and then came the time to get out.

Chugach, a 6 year old buck of mine that I used only once for breeding(why I don't really know) pleasantly surprised us when he was scored. He was a 10 point main frame typical, had 30 inch beams, a 24 inch spread, had near 15 inch G2's, and scored 222, with only 11 inches of that being ''extras''.



I thank Gary and Jane Nelson of Wild Rivers Whitetails for the bloodlines I bought from them 12 years ago, and all the fair treatment and helpful advice they always took the time to give me.



Met alot of good people in this business, many of which have been on this forum, even though we have not met face to face, I still feel the connection.

I hope the very very best to all who continue in this business...sure looks as though ya got a fight ahead of you...and I see it as a time to get to fighting for your rights and really, for what should be considered as no more than ''reasonable''!!!!

Always figured outdoorsmen(and women) hold a higher level of ''grit'' than most...so GET after it people!!!



Dennis - You keep your head up Brother...you have a HUGE ACE in the hole...and that'd be none other than JESUS!!!

Amen brother Mark....thank you so much for the kind words.....I am bouncing all over the place right now with my thoughts and one minute I'm stayin in for the long haul and the next I'm throwin in the towel.......today I finially got the courage to score my breeder, my buddy.....that died the other day.....I actually have some bigger out there but he was special as I've explained before.....but anyhow my friend Virgil was over today helping with some deer and we decided to score him.....he was 244 2/8 at two and that was a pretty clean rack.....22 scorable points with only a few stickers.....he would have been something next year...but I guess next year was not meant to be for him.......it was tough scoring him....and it will be tough for a while with him missing from the pens....but time heals and should I decide to continue on this whitetail journey I know there will be another that will steal my heart again......but I can tell you this guy ....he carved a place in my heart that will never ....ever be filled till the day I die...and I thank God for that relationship everyday......this guy was Special without a doubt.....he didn't make me a dime......but he made me rich in spirit and I will take that any day........I was so blessed to have him and I am learning that I need to be grateful for the time we had! I know we as deer farmers have all had our favorites...and it stinks when they pass.........got to love these Whitetails ...what a blessing from God! Thanks again everyone for your kind words.......let's hope things get straightened out soon with the new CWD discovery in PA.......

I'm so sorry for your loss Dennis...

I really hope they pull their test in these quarentine herds and find no more CWD, that way things can open back up. I feel terrible for those poor farms directly involved. It was not their fault!! The positive was going to come someday, now some poor guys/gals will loose their "freedom" to farm deer. What a tradgedy, Is this country a free country anymore??? At times it definately seems not to be.

Thanks Billie Jo.....I hope you are feeling better............thanks for the kind words...

Dennis, Sorry to hear about your loss. As I said in previous post(the deer belong to GOD and we are just the caretakers). Some of these deer become part of your family so the loss is like losing a family member. As a building contractor this sign hung in my office for over 40 years. I think it fits deer breeders as well; We the willing,led by the knowing,are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long with so little,we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

Antlershed said:

I really hope they pull their test in these quarentine herds and find no more CWD, that way things can open back up. I feel terrible for those poor farms directly involved. It was not their fault!! The positive was going to come someday, now some poor guys/gals will loose their "freedom" to farm deer. What a tradgedy, Is this country a free country anymore??? At times it definately seems not to be.

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I agree...i asked the dept of ag what would happen if a large farm with 100-200 deer valued at 500K+ happened to do business with these individuals...i was told they would have to eliminate all the deer in order to confirm or be quarantined forever...how can the state wipe out a lively hood of someone with no compensation?



the contaminated doe was a PA born deer who lived to be 3 1/2 years old prior to dying and then testing positive. how many deer were in contact with this doe over the years that will need to be killed just to show they are negative? its not right.....



also this disease has been around since 1979 (from what i researched) you mean to tell me that the only way to determine whether a deer has CWD is by killing it? with todays technology and scientific break throughs you would think that they could tell by testing urine, fecal, hair, tissue, blood, etc ....

Zach I hear yah.......I do think CWD was first discovered in 1966 might be wrong but I think so.....but you are right about the testing should be much easier you would think.......I have a feeling if a deer is traced to a large farm you will never know about it......you would certainly have thought that would have happened already.....none the less.....it is not right big small medium or whatever the size of the farm......

the live testing that was using a mucosa rectal biopsy is about 80% accurate .... not good enough for secure trade