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Without hunters we all starve! Please comment

How does the future of high fence hunting look?

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  • Stagnent or on the down

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I have not had time to read all the posts so I have only scanned over most of them. But this is a fact. Our industry has EVERYTHING we need to push on to the next level.

I have long wondered and asked why we don't use all our resources that the industry has.

Deer growers and hunt ranch owners come from ALL walks of life. We have the rich, and powerful, we have the blue collar hard working get your hands dirty, we have the famous, and we have the most important thing of all. PASSION!

Jarrod makes a great offer, and there are others like him who have fame or face recognition on their side. Let's use it. We have business people who have connections with everyone in literally all corners of the world, let's use them. We have the product and a way of putting it on the shelves. I can envision our high fence hunting being pushed to a whole new level. And when we push it to that level that will soften the hard liners who are against our product, it will give us more industry recognition, and in turn we will have an easier time speaking to our lawmakers about who we are and what we do. We will no longer be that obscure little industry that they have not ever heard of.

This whole effort may seem like what we need to do in order to survive, but I think in reality this is the push that makes our industry the strongest it has ever been. I have been wanting this for years, and I am as energized now as I have ever been about our future!!!

NADEFA, WOW, MNDBA, PDFA, and every other state org in the country get on board!



Life has no limits, why should your hunting be limited? Come experience the thrill of a lifetime at one of the many hunting ranches across the country!
 
When I do the hunting shows the people just can't keep there hands off the big racks.When you tell them it is HF alot will say it is like shooting a cow.They think they all are tame.
 
foodplot said:
When I do the hunting shows the people just can't keep there hands off the big racks.When you tell them it is HF alot will say it is like shooting a cow.They think they all are tame.
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Yes I know what your dealing with there Foodplot. A guy Laurie my wife works with loves looking at the pics of our bucks. He talks the same way about high fence hunting. So a few years ago I told him I would take him on our place for a day and try and get him a cull doe. He brought the CEO of the company and we sat there for about 6 hours. We saw some really nice bucks and some smaller ones also. Just before dark a doe popped out and the CEO made a nice shot on her. Well, Ron said that even though he might not come hunt at a place like this himself, he did see it much differently than he did early. I see that as a success because before that he was against them all together. He only took the opportunity to rub elbows with the CEO and make brownie points.

While typing this my phone rang and it is a local guy who wants to come see the boys tonight. He is bringing his brother and some other guy. These are all people who I will educate tonight about what we do and what we provide. And from that some day they may be a customer at our place or some other place.

Foodplot, the next time some guy thumbs his nose at a HF hunt make him a deal. He buys the hunt and if he can honestly say when he is done hunting at your place and is posing with his buck on camera that it sucked and he won't be back you will give him the hunt at half price. I bet you win;)
 
Ok boys I am gonna get on out here with ya'll. I spend at least 500 hours a year working for Deer Association Boards. Nobody I have seen post here has came up to me as a board member(other than Holly that I can think of) and said, Tim what can we do. NADeFA would be glad, I think, to develop this as a committee. I would certainly be glad to present it to the board as I'm sure many others would. You guys can serve on that committee and we can work on raising the money in all ways possible. If you guys start a roundtable it only makes sense to get everything off on the right foot. I would think that you should continue to generate ideas and keep all of them. Bring them to the Top 30 and meet early and we could try to have the NADeFA board meet with you guys after that. We could really start to move at this point. Maybe we need something sooner. I figure if you own a preserve you will be tied up until then anyway. We could probably have the wheels in motion by the NADeFA conference. Airing commercials at the earliest possible date. There are alot of didderent avenues we can take from tv commercials to educational materials to be given away. If we support a hunting show they will support us. Remember they are trying to make a living too. Everyone has been giving great input but we do not need another Association or group being started. We need everyone to donate their time and efforts in the one we have. We really have a great group of helpful board members with the best for all in their hearts. I feel everyone on our board works tirelessly for the best future possible for the industry. This is probably one of the most unselfish groups of people to serve any board anywhere. We are all givers to the industry of our time and every penny we can. Join Russ and all others with your ideas and lets all work together to cram this down their throats awhile. Always stay on offense. You can't win if the other team has the ball all the time.
 
High fence hunting is going to explode. It is yhe only way to raise quality deer. The land has been divided into to small of blocks to raise quality deer without a fence. If these people who object would try it they would love it. They are just as passionate about hunting. I changed one hunters mind last year by showing him a really nice 4 year old on the game camera and aloowed him to hunt that buck for 2 weeks on a 700 acre preserve. He saw some nice bucks but not that one. I have never seen most of the bucks we killed except on the game camera. This year he has booked a hunt!
 
Don't you just hate it when you take to long to reply and you get logged out and have to rewrite your post...it was much better the first time I wrote it.







I'd like to chime in here now. I agree with much that was said.... everyone has great ideas. Problem is! as is always! Its a small percentage trying to tackle the task(lot of T words) at hand. This things needs to be headed and treated as a major issue by NADEFA. Please Nobody take offense by that statement. I sat back for many years wondering why this very issue of high fence hunting has never been aggresively campaigned by anyone. Really if you think about it the preserve have always given the task of promoting the industry(shooting). Nobody as ever attempted squash the unethical type people/preserves in the industry that has helped in the campaign of calling all of us Canned hunting. Just one of those is detriment to the whole but we just let it go on.(Bellar deal ring a bell)...never setting any size restrictions, ethical practices...etc.... If the hard economical times is what is gonna make us all wake up then I'm glad it happening and I'M ALL IN to make things better. Point is these issues should have been addressed a long..long time ago.



In reguards to why some guys are having trouble selling shooters:

1- No relationship has been established with the preserve owners..they just expect them to buy them...when you have other folks who have worked and I mean worked with the preserve guys why go some place else. Could be on pricing, guarentees, delivery.etc....

2- Some of you may have not noticed many of the preserve guys are simply raising their own bucks .....primarily because of hard losses that incurred by the preserves when buying guys/gals shooters. I believe many(not all) of the producers are only concerned with getting the deer there and unloaded and think it ain't their problem anymore....handling, loading, husbandry, health..etc... are not of concern before they get to destination. Many don't have proper facilities to facilitate this and really don't care.....Heck I'm just selling shooters get um loaded and out of here!



Take your son, daughter,uncle, father, mother, sister, BUDDY'S etc...out hunting.............. AT A PRESERVE! see what that will do for the industry! Cant back it if youz ain't tried it.........get my drift!



Now i'm just rambling here...

but you get the jist/jiss



fine print:

This message was not intended to offend anyone and reserve the right respond. Everyones seems a little touchy on here these days.

I can not be accountable for grammer, spelling,or anything else.............I wasn't a english teacher!
 
NADeFA has a Hunting Ranch Coucil (Committee). This is the PERFECT time to get it fired up while the issues are hot! I know while I was Executive Director I had to pull teeth and beg people to participate. That is just the facts. It is the same group of guys that are the one to ALWAYS participate and do what they can but they can only be stretched so far.



So, Tim.... becuase I have been gone so long, I don't even know who the head of the Hunting Ranch Council is. Could you please post the person's name and contact info here? Now's the time. We can all put our opinions and offers for help where it counts. You do not have to be a board member of NADeFA to serve on the committee, so let's get a move on.



Many of us have been saying these very things for years now and have predicted that things would fall out just as they have. It just seemed as though we could never get anyone to care the way we did. It appears it is happening now so I say NADeFA should step up and make the best of the very opportunity before them.



Tim?
 
Holly funny you mention the Ranch Council I sat in on the meeting volunteered to be on it as well as the CLF but for some reason they must have to many folks already on it doing to good of a job that they didn't need my services??????:confused: beep..beep Had to ***! I expreesed some of those very concerns I stated above... Deaf Ears at the time I guess!

By the way Dave Griffith heads it up I believe?? I'm on our state committee which we actually did some work monday at the capital.









fine print:

This message was not intended to offend anyone and reserve the right respond. Everyones seems a little touchy on here these days.

I can not be accountable for grammer, spelling,or anything else.............I wasn't a english teacher!
 
I guess another question I have what is the purpose of the CLF?????? Isn't it Education/Marketing? Seriously asking a question here...
 
mrwhiteails said:




fine print:

This message was not intended to offend anyone and reserve the right respond. Everyones seems a little touchy on here these days.

I can not be accountable for grammer, spelling,or anything else.............I wasn't a english teacher!
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Oh my God that is the funniest thing yet!!! I have to add a disclaimer to the signature of my posts!
 
Dave Griffith is the chairman, I am 1 of the assistants or whatever you call us. We have put in about 40-60 hours this summer on conference calls making additions and subtractions to the code of ethics, and the white paper. We are working right now on the (and if you were at the Cervid Congress and participated you would know) FAIR CHASE HUNTING RANCH GUIDELINES. Thats what we all support FAIR CHASE HUNTING RANCHES!!!! That is what we now are calling ourselves. We are basicly having a document that is meant as a guideline of acceptable and unacceptable practices. These will be recomendations to people who own FAIR CHASE HUNTING RANCHES. I wish everyone just had their names on here so I would know who I am talking to.---- Mr.---- I am sure we had an oversight and would be glad to get you in. Just e-mail or call. ----To answer the CLF question, it will be to big of a job for the CLF the way it is structured. I do not totally agree with how it is structured but it was set up a long time ago and by the people who put the money there. It is hard to change what someone set up with their own money. I know that everyone can't be at every function, but there seems to be enough time to make the auctions, but not the functions to keep us in business. We try as hard as possible. We ain't even in a tight spot upside of some that we been through. I think we got a little spoiled. One of these days I'll tell my story on here. How I got started and what I went through. Probably not the hardest story but I think most of you might appreciate how you easy you had it after reading mine. The one thing I will tell you. Through all of the setbacks and pure hell I had. Not one time did I consider throwing in the towel. As I've said before, I am a Deer Farmer, thats what I do and who I am. Thats what I want to be and be known for. Its what I do that I am most proud of and its what I will do until I can't. Good Luck All
 
There is a flip side to every story, look through the eyes of another...



I think that it is also very important to remember that if we all get what we are asking for, which we will, the national stage at our fingertips. We need to also be prepared for as much fire power from the anti's as we have placed into the education ends of promoting our message. They have almost unlimited resources at there disposal if they feel threatened!!



We must change the mind set of the hunters so much, that they are as excitied to be a part of our vision of the hunting industry, that they are willing to stake it all with us.
 
Josh, I was on the phone with Timmy Conduit trying to figure out who mrwhiteails was when we starting reading your post, but we couldn't figure out your post. Tim said You shur do say a lot and say nuttin or are you one those code talkers and were to dumb to understand. After we got done reading your post and scratching our nuts I mean heads we want to know where to buy the secret code manual.





Disclaimer: All comments in this post should have no underlying meaning read into them, as we were snorting Milk Calcium while reading and responding to your post, and figured it turned us in to Big Tumor Heads. LOL Having a good time Joshy.
 
ddwhitetails said:
Guys we can have pitch after pitch of what we need to do and Russ Jr. has so kindly opened the door that needed to be opened. It is out in the open now where it needs to be.......as Russ said, we can bury our heads in the sand and die a slow death or wake up right now put our heads together and turn this market around. The numbers are there guys.......yes kids of today know little about hunting because that is how they were brought up.....it's not their fault it's our fault.....it's our local game and fish commissions fault there has been NO drive to win these newer generations hearts back into a pastime that has been enjoyed by millions since this Country was discovered. Heck, my own son was falling into the new wave of thinking that hunting is basically not cool.....until i took the initiative to sit down with him and talk and basically give him my sales pitch about something that is important to me and something that i enjoy......He now loves hunting and has more passion for it than I would have or could have ever imagined.......this is what needs to be done guys but on a much larger scale......we will win some battles and lose some but the ones we win will be the saving grace for this Industry. That is just the newer generation not to mention our generation that is currently hunting........their perspective of High fenced hunts is awful.....they see it as a canned hunt in a small fenced in area...where the hunter basically walks in and shops for a buck he likes and then shoots it....again, it's not their fault for thinking that way......it's our fault for not letting them know the truth about preserves and that it is just another way of hunting with a lot more excitement! It's like producing the coolest car ......it has all the bells and whistles anyone could ever want........but you don't advertise it and your neighbor puts out all kinds of negative advertising about it because he feels threatened you will take his business........so people come up and basically thier mouth waters when they see the car and they really want it....BUT the word out on the street is the car is not what it looks to be ..........so you walk away and there sits that perfect car with all the things anyone could ever want a car to have but it never sells because the public has been miss informed.............you do some positive advertising and people give the car a try and the next thing you know the cars are selling out everywhere!

may not be the best analogy in the world but that is basically where we are right now with our Industry..........we got the product and it has all the bells and whistles everyone wants.....but they ahve been miss informed and until we change that ........that is where we sit!!



Russ, I really feel a new Board needs to be developed and their sole purpose in life is MARKETING for our Industry......I feel if we try to over burden the currrent boards such as Nadefa with this issue it will never get the attention it needs (not that I don't have faith in their board i just feel they have a full plate as is with everything they do).



Another very important thing we all need to do is Pray folks. God is our most powerful tool. I'm not going to preach here i am merely asking for your prayers as they are very much needed.......as it is said, where two or three of you are gathered in my name I will be there! It is because of our ignorance as a nation by seperating God from it that we are in the current mess we are in as a country. God is giving us exactly what we have been asking him for......and that is to stay away....that we don't need him ....that he needs to be seperate from our government......our schools......and so on .......look at where it has gotten us! Please......lets not make this same mistake with our industry........God will answer our prayers.........God will help.......WE just need to let him be apart of it.



Russ i know our first priority is to raise funds. However, I do know a company that is very successful in Marketing in the hunting Industry. This IS their business....they have clients such as Mossy oak, Real Tree outdoors and many of the big players in the industry.......they are good at what they do. I would be happy to talk about them in more detail once we are at that step in the process. They could be a very good canidate to run our national marketing campaign.



I think a 100% donation sale to get things off the ground for the advertising campaign is a great idea. Why couldn't there be a small percentage be taken from each consignment at the sales which would go directly towards these efforts as well. Once this is off and running there needs to be a steady flow of income being invested towards the campaign in order to keep it successful. It would not be fair to only ask for these percentages at our sales.......small percentages from advertisements in the deer magazines, websites and anywhere else our deer farmers advertise could be put towards the advertising campaign. Once the campaign is up and going it will be able to generate it's own revenue through advertisments as well......I'm sure there are lot's of breeders out there that would love to see their farms advetised on TV!!



Many of these hunting programs have used our preserves as a way of promoting their products and sellling their videos under a false notion that they are hunting in the wild with NO high fences. They save a lot of money by being able to come to the preserve and be able to film a quick successful hunt that in the wild may have taken weeks to get on film. It's time they pay their dues and start promoting our Industry as well. They need us as much as we need them.....we are all on the same playing feild. The hunters in our industry purchase their videos, hunt in their clothing, use their game calls.....so i see nothing wrong with asking for a little in return and that would be positive advertising about our industry........preserves could offer some free hunts to these hunting video producers in return for free advertising about their hunting preserve and positive advertising for our Industry as well.



Too bad we couldn't just do like the government does when they need money and just implement a 2,3,4 5,6 or 7% tax on all sales across the board within our industry.......boy wouldn't that be easy!?



We are at the here and now guys and *****.......this will not go away......if left alone it will with out a doubt get worse..........the strong will survive for as long as they can but even they will meet their end if the numbers keep falling as they are. If this doesn't scare you and motivate you to want to do something IT SHOULD. It really should. Don't hold back because you think your ideals might be stupid.......no idea or thought about how we can turn our Industry around is stupid.........their are a lot of bright minds out there, lets keep those thoughts and suggestions comming our Industry is depending on it. Let's give this the attention it NEEDS!! This should be the Hottest thread going in these forums........We all share to gain from this campaign lets make it work!!!
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Dennis good word. As you mentioned, we need to put God in the center of our country, our deer farming and our lives. I pary others get as motivated as you.

Gods blessings to you and your's



100% of the deer that don't die in your pens are shot!
 
Josh said:
There is a flip side to every story, look through the eyes of another...



I think that it is also very important to remember that if we all get what we are asking for, which we will, the nation stage at our fingertips. We need to also be prepared for as much fire power from the anti's as we have place into the education ends of promoting our message. They have almost unlimited resources at there disposal if they feel threatened!!



We must change the mind set of the hunters so much, that they are as excitied to be a part of our vision of the hunting industry, that they are willing to stake it all with us.
Click to expand...



Josh brings up an excellent point. I'm sure that most of us have been part of various debates with other hunter's perceptions about high fence hunting. I've debated the "canned hunt" perception on other hunting web sites, and in person, and the common reaction is one that is deeply ingrained in our fellow hunter's minds. The amazing part is that many of them can't provide any substance to their argument. It's something that's been passed down to them with the rest of their hunting heritage. Heck I even felt the same way at one time. However, when you challenge them with facts about "fair chase hunting preserves" they are sometimes persuaded. One key component is to get them to see these preserves FIRST HAND. I'm confident in our resources that we can make them "FEEL" the challenge of fair chase high fence.

The hunters that have the most compelling stories are the ones that have actually gone on a high fence hunt to a reputable facility. They speak of having a perception of canned hunts that were completely dispelled after realizing how challenging a high fence hunt can be. This is obvisouly our goal... to change the mindset of the common hunter. The big question is what is the most effective way to get there?

There are some good ideas that have come up, and I love the passion behind those ideas even more. The challenge is creating a marketing campaign that is extremely well thought out, and delivering it through the proper channels. The old saying of "you never get a second chance to make a first impression" is very important here. There's already an impression of high fence hunting, but I truly believe we can change that mindset... at least for enough hunters that it will create a movement in our direction.

I'm confident that we have the resources and personnel to pull this off. But is shouldn't be something that we rush into. Our goal right now should be to unite all of us into an organized front. Then let the work begin. A brainstorming/roundtable discussion is a great place to start. It sounds like the wheels are already in motion... I'm happy to help in any way that I can.

Thank you Russ for starting this incredibly important discussion. Let me know how I can help.
 
RWalkJr said:
Wisdom your last post is accurate as to what I am seeing here on the other side (Hunting Ranch). As I see it we basically have 2 options here.



1st we wake up! Re- organize our efforts, ask our national and state originations to help or spearhead the project, ask a major sale company to step forward, develop a national outreach to recruit new hunters, step to the advertising plate with a huge hammer ($1,000,000+) no tiny advertising tickle, drive hundreds of thousands of potential hunters to our web site, bring aboard all who wish to "continue deer farming" as Co-Op board of outreach members or add this to the existing national board (NADEFA) and start to finally build a stable future for our markets.



Tim, you are very right when you mention what the lobbyist have done for us and the amazing work being headed up by NADEFA. That's why I generously donate to that organization. The NADEFA board never gets the credit they deserve.



I'm saying that this is desperate times in our countries financial health. Our hunting preserves are down 50% and hunting in general is falling off with the next generation. Pennsylvania alone sold 1.8 million hunting licenses just a few years ago. Last year we were down in the 600,000's. You see kids walking down the street texting all day long, they can't wait to get home and play the Play Station or get on the computer. This is the next generation of hunters and that's why statistics show hunting licenses dropping off; 75% of the loss is in people under 30 years of age. We are already fighting an uphill battle with hunting in general but its ludicrous not to market our outstanding whitetail product to the market we hope to sell it to. Many just have no idea what we have to offer or are tainted by the negative taste in their mouth that they have got from anti hunters or those purest hunters that want their 140 buck on the wall to represent the best buck in the county. We need a positive and exciting message to sound loudly that high fence hunting is no different than a stocked trout stream, released pheasants or every hunt available in Africa. Our message is "High fence means more fun!" and all the serious hunters are" going high fence for a better future". Marketing works! If you don't believe me just look at our current president! The media brain washed enough to put Obama in office and thats a much bigger feat then recruiting some new hunters.



My family just came back a few weeks ago from the Buck-a-Rama hunting show in Atlanta. We along with Apple Creek and Dream Ranch were a few to represent high fence hunting opportunities at that show. We had thousands of guys look at the very impressive display of antler and creative marketing ideas only to walk away disappointed that they would be unable to participate in our offers just because of the high fence and the mental block they had when they thought of it. Imagine if our positive advertising campaign could change the opinion of only 20% of these critical hunters. We would have potentially had opportunities to book over 300 hunts!!! And that's only one show! This year was the first year our company was unable to purchase at the Ohio shooter sale because we didn't need the bucks. Now imagine what that sale would have looked like had we bought 50+ bucks as we have in past years. Compound that with Apple Creek and Dream Ranch and the 3 of us could have bought every shooter in the sale, just from bookings at one hunting show! Yes, this is big talk, but you get the overall point here.



Option #2 We pretend all is well. A good day is around the corner and things will come back. Not gonna happen guys. This is about like saying gas prices were 89 cent just a few years back and just around the corner is gonna get better. Here is what is going to happen. Your shooters will continue to get cheaper as the next few years pass. Kevin Grace pulled off a great shooter sale in Ohio and I guarantee you nobody will get more for the same deer as that sell brought. Why? As Wisdom said "supply and demand". I'm getting calls regularly with desperate voices saying what can I get for my bucks? Everyone knows what I am saying is true. You can try to hide it in order to sell those last couple animals in the next sale, but there is a problem brewing from the core of our sales recruiting philosophy. The most successful breeders are biting there lip and gritting their teeth right now as they are reading this because by hiding this from you and projecting a false market they make money.



Our industry can answer this warning and turn around a poorly inherited business platform or slowly sink and someday soon, you will say man I wish we would have got started a long time ago in our marketing to the hunters!



Again, I am a positive, motivated thinking 30 year old aggressive breeder, and am still investing heavy in this business. In the last 14 months I've purchased 8 breeder bucks -Rolls Royce, Ebenezer, Noble, Legacy, Gold Digger, Time Bomb, Promise Land and Energizer. I've also spent over $300,000 on a new breeding facility to expand with future options and have added some smokin does to our lineup. I have no money man backing me and have worked my butt off trying to get some great deer. "I'm all in". I believe and am counting on the innovative ideas and business minded spirit that the great people of this industry has. Scott get the round table ready there is work to do. Deer breeders lets change a dim future to one with hope and prosperity. Top 30 breeders step up to the plate. Auction companies answer the call - we need a 100% donation sale towards creating a future advertising campaign. NADEFA and state associations we need your financial support and organizational expertise.



You can call me whatever you like but my heart is in this business and I'm only trying to stir a movement that will provide a future. Thanks for the great comments and posts guys. Aaron great site keep up the very unselfish work. Let's use this thread to throw more ideas around. We need Sam, Eric, Fred, Holly, Bruce, Harry, Mark, Will, Michael, Josh, Chad, Dustin, Alex, Greg, Nate, Jarrod, Reed, Scott, Tara, Jason, Rusty, John, Craig and so on... we need some words of advice, ideas, opinions, solutions, ect. This problem will not go away until it is addressed and aggressively worked on until fixed.
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Very good I love it when people get sturred up for the right reasons. I would gladly help in any way. If you need to contact me, ask you dad who talked to him Saturday a week ago on this very subject. By that you will both find out who Wisdom is. Please keep my identy to your self

Blessings

100% of the deer that don't die in your pens are shot!
 
Here's an idea... We have some 20,000+ farms/ranches in the country why not everyone kick in $200 bucks. You do the math...I ate got enough fingers and toes but that should get us going. What do you think folks??



Don't call me to many names now!
 
Harry I will be down to meet up with you and Tim, that MC is what I need! Tim tell us your story you were talking about...
 
mrwhiteails said:
Here's an idea... We have some 20,000+ farms/ranches in the country why not everyone kick in $200 bucks. You do the math...I ate got enough fingers and toes but that should get us going. What do you think folks??



Don't call me to many names now!
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Excellent idea... a Stimulus Package for the deer farming industry! Great idea Harry... oops.. I mean mrwhiteails!
 
You guys just exposed my identity.....so I guess I need a new one....what do you think about if I use mrwhite and password of tumor... keep that a secret thou.
 

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