Joined Apr 2009
1,136 Posts | 0+
Bedford, PA
I can understand both sides of this arguement, however, the original intent of this thread has been lost through a lot of cynical posts. I can understand such cynicism, but it hardley brings our industry together, and it paints the auction companies with a broad negative brush that is simply not accurate! Let me explain...
I entered my first auction back in 2007's PA Fall Sale put on by Midwest. I had never even met the auction owners before sending in my consignments, but I did contact them and ask which animals they thought would be the best representation for my farm. I put in my BEST deer on the farm, not because I wanted to get rid of them, but because I saw the VALUE in using the auctions as a tool for promoting my farm and genetics. I made almost $4k on a fawn that was born from a doe that I paid $2,500 for, and I still had the doe plus the other fawn... not TOP money by any means, but not bad in my mind for a farmer in his first auction. Not only that, but I got to meet farmers from all over the country that I wouldn't have otherwise met. To me there's real value in being part of the auctions.
These are good quality people and fellow deer farmers that put most of the auctions together for us to continue the growth of our industry! I'm not saying they're perfect, and that there's nothing to fix, but is focusing on only the negatives really the way to do it? There are numerous issues and challenges that we are facing in our industry, and they should be discussed, but slamming each other on an internet forum isn't gonna get it done!
I do think the gap between the very top breeders and those in the middle and bottom will be lessened over time. This isn't because I have anything at all against the top breeders and lines, in fact I'm pretty good friends with most of them, but there's only so many crosses you can make with the same deer! It's already been brought up in this thread... we simply CAN'T keep breeding to the same lines over and over and over, and expect to move forward!!!! There are way to many good deer out there producing consistently to ignore them much longer. But they must be PROMOTED in a smart and effective way. The bottom line is that you can have the best producing deer on the planet, but if nobody knows about it, or you can't create a message that excites people about your deer, they will never reach their full potential.
I have some very "mainstream"/"popular" genetics on my farm, but I've also started a line of deer that have absolutely PROVEN to put huge frames on the ground year after year after year. And this line did it on ONE farm without any AI. No wading through hundreds of sons from all over the country to find a good one... It was accomplished through line-breeding the best to the best over years of breeding. Now that's PREDICTABILITY and CONSISTENCY! Who wouldn't want that???
To give you an idea of how potent this line is, and I hope they don't mind me saying this, the Flees' AI'd 6 of their best does on their entire farm with a sire from this line.... I'll leave it at that.
It's well past time for some NEW BLOOD to get into the game! There's plenty of room for all of us!
I entered my first auction back in 2007's PA Fall Sale put on by Midwest. I had never even met the auction owners before sending in my consignments, but I did contact them and ask which animals they thought would be the best representation for my farm. I put in my BEST deer on the farm, not because I wanted to get rid of them, but because I saw the VALUE in using the auctions as a tool for promoting my farm and genetics. I made almost $4k on a fawn that was born from a doe that I paid $2,500 for, and I still had the doe plus the other fawn... not TOP money by any means, but not bad in my mind for a farmer in his first auction. Not only that, but I got to meet farmers from all over the country that I wouldn't have otherwise met. To me there's real value in being part of the auctions.
These are good quality people and fellow deer farmers that put most of the auctions together for us to continue the growth of our industry! I'm not saying they're perfect, and that there's nothing to fix, but is focusing on only the negatives really the way to do it? There are numerous issues and challenges that we are facing in our industry, and they should be discussed, but slamming each other on an internet forum isn't gonna get it done!
I do think the gap between the very top breeders and those in the middle and bottom will be lessened over time. This isn't because I have anything at all against the top breeders and lines, in fact I'm pretty good friends with most of them, but there's only so many crosses you can make with the same deer! It's already been brought up in this thread... we simply CAN'T keep breeding to the same lines over and over and over, and expect to move forward!!!! There are way to many good deer out there producing consistently to ignore them much longer. But they must be PROMOTED in a smart and effective way. The bottom line is that you can have the best producing deer on the planet, but if nobody knows about it, or you can't create a message that excites people about your deer, they will never reach their full potential.
I have some very "mainstream"/"popular" genetics on my farm, but I've also started a line of deer that have absolutely PROVEN to put huge frames on the ground year after year after year. And this line did it on ONE farm without any AI. No wading through hundreds of sons from all over the country to find a good one... It was accomplished through line-breeding the best to the best over years of breeding. Now that's PREDICTABILITY and CONSISTENCY! Who wouldn't want that???
To give you an idea of how potent this line is, and I hope they don't mind me saying this, the Flees' AI'd 6 of their best does on their entire farm with a sire from this line.... I'll leave it at that.
It's well past time for some NEW BLOOD to get into the game! There's plenty of room for all of us!
Wisdom I am racking my brain to ever remember when an auctioneer doing the selling ever bid at the same time, I might remember Crist Miller doing it once and he announced to the crowd that it was indeed his bid. There is not a better man around than him, the idea of spending more time on one lot than another is a difficult deal all the way around. The time spent on most lots depends mostly on the amount of bidders on the lot, how frequently they are bidding, and the auctioneer relying alot on his ringmen, if only two guys are bidding and one says he's done its gonna be quicker than if there are several guys on and off or even on the internet or phone. There is no perfect way and you will never satisfy everyone, do the best you can listen to new ideas and move forward.
mike heiter, nicely said... I am working on a little project of my own as well... Big frames and line bred to PRODUCE!!!!
I will not mix words here or be misunderstood. This post is to you the 3%. Eric’s thread was to the 97%. To find out why the 97% aren’t attending auctions. Some of the 97% are responding with their heart felt answers to help Eric understand why they do not attend auctions and what to do to get them involved in auctions to buy your products. If you are attending auctions you are in the 3%. If you are in the 3% this thread does not apply to you and your negative comments are destroying what Eric is trying to accomplish.
Any further negative comments from the 3% at this time is a slap in the face to Eric.
Any further negative comments from the 3% at this time is a slap in the face to Eric.
Midwest Deer Sales said:
Wisdom, Very well said !!! And people wounder why others don't respond or get involved when asked a question. I no of others who think it is a conflict of interest also.
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
Virgil, why do you feel it is a conflict if you actualy want to by the deer is that wrong. I have been to several auctions and see and heard Kevin Grace not only start the bid but buy the deer because he said he wanted it for his program . I dont have a problem with that kind of thing.I feel he has the right to bid if he wants to i guess i would rather see him do it than hear about it being bought and sold to him after the sale. And wisdom i DON'T want to be part of the 3 or the 97 just part of the 100 percent of the deer industry!
Wayne,
I understand what your saying and I generally don't think when they bid on an animal they are doing it to pad their pockets......but it is a conflict of interest as they (the auction folks) make a commisssion from the sales of the deer and that is why Virgil is saying there is a conflict there. Anyhow, this thread sure did get off the original subject.....
I understand what your saying and I generally don't think when they bid on an animal they are doing it to pad their pockets......but it is a conflict of interest as they (the auction folks) make a commisssion from the sales of the deer and that is why Virgil is saying there is a conflict there. Anyhow, this thread sure did get off the original subject.....
Good answer, That’s what Eric and all of us want, but for some reason a few of the 3% keep derailing the conversation with negativity and pointing fingers.
I think Eric’s question hit the heart of a growing problem within our industry.
I think Eric’s question hit the heart of a growing problem within our industry.
Joined Jul 2009
1,215 Posts | 0+
Deer Park, Alabama
Eric
I think many of us don't attend the auction for three simple reasons. We do not have the time, money or quality necessary to participate at that level. By far the majority of us work everyday and raising deer is not our livelyhood. I get two weeks off each year and must balance my free time between family and things I would like to do such as attend the auctions. We are by no means opposed to the auctions.
I think many of us don't attend the auction for three simple reasons. We do not have the time, money or quality necessary to participate at that level. By far the majority of us work everyday and raising deer is not our livelyhood. I get two weeks off each year and must balance my free time between family and things I would like to do such as attend the auctions. We are by no means opposed to the auctions.
I feel the way i do not cause i think any of the auctioneers are crooked just that this is there business and they are making money from it. Like i siad before it is a conflict of interest and doesn't sit well with many paople. I'm just giveing feed back to help Eric out don't want to rufle anyones feathers.
Wisdom, are you saying that the 3% has no say now? I'm sure not one of the 3% although I'd love to be. But, back to Erics original post. Eric, one thing that I feel would help with the new guys being involved would be to start a program where a auction company could donate a doe fawn to a new farmer who has bid or purchased at the sale. In return the new breeder agrees to keep her, breed her, fawn her out and donate a fawn to a future sale. We did this when I was in school to help some kids get started raise show stock. Some rules would have to be set but may be a good way to get some "new blood" at the sales. Just a thought
Willow, we made sure that Kevin paid a very fair price for that lot...lol
Willow, we made sure that Kevin paid a very fair price for that lot...lol
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Michael I like that idea, glad I thought of it. I think we will use that one, er, I mean we are gonna do that.
That is what I was looking for as ways to get the new deer breeder involved in the industry more.
Needless to say I did not want this forum to go this way. Just trying to get a better feel for the new guy, and try to help him or her succeed.
As far as loosing customers over this post, I don't believe that will happen. If it does than I guess they are just have a few more spots that opened up for these new guys I am trying to help.
My dad taught me a long time ago, if you truly believe in something never let anyone or anything change that.
That is what I was looking for as ways to get the new deer breeder involved in the industry more.
Needless to say I did not want this forum to go this way. Just trying to get a better feel for the new guy, and try to help him or her succeed.
As far as loosing customers over this post, I don't believe that will happen. If it does than I guess they are just have a few more spots that opened up for these new guys I am trying to help.
My dad taught me a long time ago, if you truly believe in something never let anyone or anything change that.
Joined Apr 2009
524 Posts | 0+
Russell, MN
Why couldn't there be an auction for proven does....does that have only been proven to produce shooter bucks. These does couldn't be less than 4 years old I don't think because she really hasn't had time until then to prove herself. Don't list pedigrees....just facts of what she has produced and pictures of her offspring....not pictures of who her great grandsire was on her mother's side. I don't know how many times I've seen a picture of Maxbo (just using him as an example) and the doe for sale was bred to a grandson of his twice removed and there is no picture of him
...a little humor thrown in just in case someone is taking this too serious!! I KNOW what Maxbo looks like!!
Kind of a production sale. Don't cattle have "female production" sales? I used to be into all than a long time ago, but don't remember a whole lot about it anymore. I know some think there are too many auctions right now, but maybe there are too many of the "same" auctions. Why not mix it up a little bit? Maybe an auction of this type would appeal to more of the deer farmers.
To tell you the truth, I love auctions...always have even when I was little and went with my dad to the cattle sales. Love meeting people...unfortunately, we are not going to sales this year because of cost of going to the sales. Just cannot afford it this winter.
I'm just throwing something out there.
...a little humor thrown in just in case someone is taking this too serious!! I KNOW what Maxbo looks like!!Kind of a production sale. Don't cattle have "female production" sales? I used to be into all than a long time ago, but don't remember a whole lot about it anymore. I know some think there are too many auctions right now, but maybe there are too many of the "same" auctions. Why not mix it up a little bit? Maybe an auction of this type would appeal to more of the deer farmers.
To tell you the truth, I love auctions...always have even when I was little and went with my dad to the cattle sales. Love meeting people...unfortunately, we are not going to sales this year because of cost of going to the sales. Just cannot afford it this winter.
I'm just throwing something out there.
I would like to see where these auctions have a certain percentage of their consignments that go to the new deer farmers.......the problem is the auction folks know they will make more money off the well known farmers animals and thats why the little guy gets looked over. It should be to the best interest of all the auction people to get more of the deer farmers involved as it promotes competition within the industry and that is a good thing......
I don't think you are looseing customers just listen to what we are saying this how a lot not all but some see things a little different than you may have wanted but it is what it is pounder on these things evan if you don't like it you seem like a good guy try to make things better with the feed back you got see if maybe this is what the 97% want. Oh yeah one more thing way to much talking put the lot up there bid it go to the next you probaly could squeeze in a nother 100 lots and spread the wealth instead of spending a hour on a lot that i'm not or the other 97% of the people in the room aren't even bidding on cause it is out of there price range. Meanwhile they have to sit there and suffer while they wait for the lot they want to bid on or can afford.
Eric, glad you thought of it too...lol and since i'm a new farmer and have made several purchases from your sales then I'll take one of those 2wide fawns that will be born shortly. I will promise to breed her to something good and donate a doe fawn back. Just let me know when she is born.... Thanks again ol' buddy
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
Easy there OKI............Ol Buddie, Those fawns are here in Mo. and will have to go west to get to you but since i'm the closest stop on Eric's way to you..........They better just stay at my farm and you wont have to mess with em!..... I'd do that for you be in you a "NEW DEER FARMER!
eric, don't take all for criticism and listen to what some of the guys are saying... If a few changes are made then i believe more will attend...
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