Our Industry, 8000 Deer Farmers, Only 300 Attend Auctions

H& H Deer Farm



Hunter and Hays Ainsworth....New Deer Farmers......7 weeks old



Will they quailfy?

Man thats a great idea on the giveaway but im not sure on the never bought at an auction deal.I think some of us new guys that just started this year and there is a bunch of new ones on here from the posts would be at a disadvantage.You are really talkin about someone that has no fence up yet or someone that raises shooters and prob wont use the sales anyway also anybody that has their testing in order has prob already used the auction.I think its a great idea and i will be there either way but mabey you should go about it different.Sounds great though!

Four Seasons, I know what you are saying, but if we give away a deer and they don't have all CWD, TB, Bruc in order or do not have a fence and facility they will probably not be ready for a deer of this caliber or any deer for that matter.

It will be a work in progress but I see what you are saying. I will let Michael and DDWhitetails figure out who qualifies, it was Michael's Idea and DDWhitetails was willing to help.

Thanks

Eric

I like that things have settled into a productive discussion.



I like the idea of the "new growers" having a section of the auction for themselves. I can already see defining what "new" is will become an issue.

I think new is still more than a years time.(One growing cycle)

I think new can still be people who have bought at auctions already. A person might buy their first ever deer at an auction but they are new.

I would say that they have never sold at auction is good.

I think that they (and EVERYONE) should have to be a NADEFA member and a member of their own state org to consign at any auctions.



I'm sorry but I don't like semen giveaways on a large scale. I think we don't need to contribute to the decline of the semen market any more than it is now.

But I would like the idea of these 20 new growers in the auction competing for some sort of giveaway based on their sales at that auction.(excluding the other sellers in the sale and just those 20 in their own competition) This will reward those new growers who consigned good animals and not the animals they needed to dump. The giveaway should be something that benefits them genetically though. Like semen or live animal.

Midwest Deer Sales said:

Michael I'll tell ya what I'll do. I will donate a doe bred at the PA Deer Breeders Fall Sale to be given away to a new deer breeder. I only have 12 breedable does and I too am a new deer farmer, but I want to make this industry the best it can be. So you gotta a deal. Call me with how this idea should work and we will need to get the perimeters in place to qualify. I will bet I can get 2 or 3 more to do the same but I want every a bunch of new deer breeder there. I will even go as far as to say that the new breeders don't even have to purchase anything, just sign up (they will have to meet a certain criteria, and I will leave that up to Michael since he thought of the idea).



Thanks again Micheal, and I will make it a "2WIDE" Bred Doe as I have a few straws in the tank!

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Thank you, Eric... This is exactly the type of commitment that will indeed help the new guys in the industry, and I mean that warm heartedly.



Sometimes we have to wade through a lot of mud to find the smallest of gold nuggets. This topic is living proof of that fact.



Now, if we can just figure out a solution to the problem of what those new guys are going to do with those deer, as far as selling them, when they start producing and maturing - this idea would be even more golden.



Lets face it, the problem isn't with getting new folks in the industry. The real problem is getting rid of the animals the industry is already producing.



With the 3% compared to the 97% points aside, as someone stated earlier, we need to be focused on 100% of the industry as a whole. I agree100% .



Is a new, separate organization in order that specifically works towards meeting and fulfilling these needs? I like to think so as the current organizations are overrun with the responsibility of sustaining the legal and legislative needs of keeping the industry from being put out of business by new laws and regulations. Maybe an organization focused on developing and securing more market outlets is the way to go. (I think someone else posted this in another topic, so its not my idea nor am I trying to take credit for it)



It could be something like the Allied Deer Producers, or something to that effect, where they work on marketing collateral's designed to target specific audiences with promotional incentive's. Form a set of Ethic By-Laws that participating members must adhere to, much like the organic farms have in place, only we would be meeting the needs specific to our industry and the general public concerns.



Some of the issues in this attempt that would need to be addressed would be;

- how will money be raised to fund such an attempt?

- how do you decided which market outlets are excepted?

- how do you enforce the by-laws to ensure compliance?

- who is willing to put the time and elbow grease into such an attempt?



These are just a few of the many issues that will need to be addressed. There was some talk several months ago about this very same attempt? Any progress on that?



There are tons and tons of great ideas being tossed around. Lets start to implement some of these ideas into action and get a head start on the problems before they escalate further out of control. We all can see the problems that are staring us in the face - lets address them head on...





Peace...







.

Eric, I'll take your lead and step up also.....I'll pay for that doe to be lap a/i d. By Dr. Stewart at my farm to help get a new guy or gal up and going! And just to let some know that WE are here to help them! And one more time I didn't get into this industry to be us against you attitude i got in because of the wiilingness and unselfishness the men and women of this industry had shown me. And i challenge anyone else to step up and help out any way the can to anyone in this industry who needs it and leave the SELFISHNESS OUTSIDE THE FENCE!

Roger call me when you get a chance. I like what you are saying. Let's talk about it!

Eric

Wayne thanks, that sounds like a winner to me. Are you supplying the semen too, LOL! Just kidding. Thanks Again!

if few states would buy a few deer from little guy .and give away few hunts time the ,hunters talk i see lot hunters changijg ther tune bout high fence!i see it growing by leaps and bounds! might be wrong thread but this is my opinon only DC

not wanting to rain on the parade but...... the "New" farm chosen would still have to be buying and selling the hot new flavor to be successful

CurtisLloyd said:

not wanting to rain on the parade but...... the "New" farm chosen would still have to be buying and selling the hot new flavor to be successful

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I don't get it. Why is it so wrong that some things are hot and others aren't?

rodger, what I was suggesting was that the new farm will still have to spend the money to get into the loop, there is no other way

IndependenceRanch said:

I don't get it. Why is it so wrong that some things are hot and others aren't?

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Roger,

This encourages fad breeding.... See below quotations of how it effects the dog industry.



"A "fad" breeder: worse than the "puppy peddler" and "backyard breeder" is the "fad breeder" who does significant harm to any breed which falls prey to them. Often they are very successful, selling truly poor quality animals to novices for very high prices. This in turn will attract other fad breeders to jump on the money making band wagon. In the 1970's, when the Doberman was the fad breed, fad breeders crossed Dobermans with Great Danes, calling them "Doberdanes" or King Dobermans" or "Gladiators" and trying to convince the uninformed novice owner that "bigger was better". Even to this day you will find people crossing Dobermans and trying to pawn off the crossbreeds as somehow "super special" dogs. They are, in fact, mixed breed dogs of no real value. The so called "Canis Panther" is a perfect example. According to the web site, these Doberman mixbreeds were bred because "...the breeders here who had these excellent dogs with the working backgrounds, would not sell their dogs to us in the inner city, especially if they knew we were personal protection dog trainers. Faced with this dilemma, the only solution was to create a dog, not just a dog, the ultimate dog for personal protection." Indeed, reputable breeders are smart to steer clear of fad breeders who make their living by selling dogs to anyone who will give them money.



A "breed steward": a rare person indeed. To "steward" something means to serve it. A breed steward serves the breed - not the other way around. Stewardship means the breeder protects the breed from modern fads; protects it from everything - and attempts to hand the breed to the next generation in the same form but with improvements in health and temperament, than they received it. They do not attempt to change the physical standard nor the nature of the animal. They do try and improve the breed within the guidelines of the original standard for the breed."

I make crosses based on pedigree and traits i'm loooking to build into my herd,Tine Lenght,WIDTH, Mass,Up Trash (extras in the right spot) and most importantly to me a proven pedigree that shows these factors at work and by doing that if it makes my a "fad breeder" then i guess you have passed judgment on me for my short comings and trying to build a "Better Mouse Trap" again i thought that was what we were breeding for ?

Whitetail Sanctuary said:

I make crosses based on pedigree and traits i'm loooking to build into my herd,Tine Lenght,WIDTH, Mass,Up Trash (extras in the right spot) and most importantly to me a proven pedigree that shows these factors at work and by doing that if it makes my a "fad breeder" then i guess you have passed judgment on me for my short comings and trying to build a "Better Mouse Trap" again i thought that was what we were breeding for ?

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AMEN!!!!!!

Great,great idea an auction for the new guys and i will sign up right now with a consignment i think someone would like(wayne i think you know!)and also if the farmers that are talkin about donating,Donate an animal i dont think anyone will have to worry about top flavor it will be tops already without bein bred.awsome idea!!!!

It is nice to have all the support for us little deer farmers. I like the terms that Roger set out as far "New Farmers". We have already purchased our deer from an auction - actually Eric it was your auction in Columbus, OH last year.

When I started getting serious about breeding deer I determined certain bucks and certain does that I wanted to focus my attention on. I bred to enhance the characteristics I like. Along with that I chose bloodlines I felt were the strongest in the market place as well. This was smart business sense in that it helped ensure that we have less issues in finding buyers. I could have started raising deer from other bloodlines that produced well but the question was do I feel that over the long term they will hold their value the best. I said no.



So Swank, using your statements above that said... "selling truly poor quality animals to novices for very high prices."



That must mean that I am raising poor quality deer. Well, I'll tell you what. I am quite pleased with the results my "poor quality" deer are giving me. And I intend to keep right on doing something completely wrong in my breeding program. By the way I think several growers I have sold my "poor quality deer" to have been really happy with their results. Almost every doe I have sold over the years was or was later determined to have produced a really good son. One doe I sold had a 190"@2 son, another is the dam to Big Attitude, and there were more but this isn't supposed to be an ad for my farm.



By the way your post of fad breeders and steward breeders don't jive with deer breeding. As deer breeders we do try and breed for certain physical traits. That is why some breed for long tines, some breed for more beam length and so on. No one I know of is breeding to create a whole new line of cervids like the example of Doberdanes.

last auction i went to the high price stuff was the more typical older smaller blood lines the real deer are coming back it will take the nontypical stuff harder to get rid of both geneticaly an physicaly

Eric,



I am just a little dog trying to keep up with the Big Dogs so I may not have what your looking for but I would be happy to throw in choice live breeding or straw of semen off my farm for the doe.