Without hunters we all starve! Please comment

Has there been any research as to how much $ a projected Marketing campaign would cost? Any guesses?

Tom,

i believe Russ Walk JR. does have a projected amount.....Russ? I know It's not going to be cheap!

For an effective marketing campaign that would go national will cost around 1.5-2 million a year for a minimum of 5 years. This is only a projected estimate that is coming from some people I'm talking with that do marketing for a living. One thing is for sure to expedite the process the more money we have the more effective we will be.



We could use some feedback on some creative ways to market our ideas. Some ideas I have already mentioned would be to sponsor 3 or 4 top rated TV shows; example might be Lee & Tiffney or Michael Waddle's shows ($250,000 for each). Also, we need continuous support for those such as Keith Warren's show that is currently in support of our industry. Keith has a great show that is very positive and educational and needs our support. Last year Walk's Premier Whitetails and S&S Whitetail Galore bought the $250,000 lot at the Mid West Sale in support of Keith's new show. We will be unable to continue to make such investments forever like these but will need your generosity for Keith's show to be as effective as it can.



Also, another idea I have would be billboard adds. Strategically placing 20 billboards beside Cabelas, Bass Pro Shops or Gander Mountain stores. This would maximize the targeted audience we are trying to reach.



How about insert flyers at college or Pro sports game programs? Penn State played today and had over 100,000 seats filled... Might be a cheap way to advertise? Maybe we put an insert in every program at every game nationwide for a year and see what results we get from that?



What about radio adds? How about an add on the back cover of your hunting license. Internet adds? The ideas are endless. What do you guys think??? I'm sure not a marketing expert and maybe hiring a marketing firm would be money well spent? Any creative ideas? No idea is stupid. The most off the wall idea just maybe the best.

Attention hunting Ranch owners. Most if not all of us agree with R walk Jr. But here is what you can do as ranch owners this season when videoing some of your hunts deer or other animals. If done right this video can be used this year or in the future, When videoing your clients with their big buck, elk or what ever. Think of questions to ask your clients (hunters) that will target and neutralize the negativity o f canned hunts has had on the high fenced industry. The norm or depth of most of these videos of hunters comments is “ Had a great time at -------- , shot the biggest ---------- at (wherever) , I want to thank -------- and I will be back. On a scale of 1-10 what did this do to promote HF hunting

What if you redirected the comments of your hunters on video to a subliminal message to target hunters who think high fenced hunting is canned hunts. Comments and questions to focus on the positive aspects of high fenced hunting.

What if all or most the hunters on video of high fenced hunts said: I enjoyed HF hunting because I needed no hunting license, I enjoyed the privacy of the hunt compared to the wall of florescent orange I usually see on opening day, Spent thousands of dollars on other hunting adventures but high fenced hunting I was guaranteed no kill no pay. Spent thousands of dollars hunting (other places with no results) ------ could have shot a 180 for ? at.



We need your video to break down the sarcastic wall of canned hunters to make hunting HF seem attractive, fun and affordable.

Ask questions not to focus on the fun but why your hunters had fun.

Wisdom,

I like your call to ranches re-directing our efforts producing videos enhancing the whitetail hunting experience. Lets begin listing all the different videos that could be developed.



Example



#1 Hunter very reluctant to try Apple creek last fall booked late December. After two days taking home his 190" buck he called to say (how different is high fence hunting from how the DNR operates raising Salmon than stocking Lake MI, raising walleyes, muskies, and many other fish than to stock lakes and regulate when and how they are caught. Apple Creek thanks for fulfilling my dream. I spent the last 12 years hunting with no chance of seeing mature bucks.)



Scott

Wisdom and Applecreek Scott those are excellent ideas and examples!

I went to a hunting preserve for the first time. I went because my friend needed deer dropped off. I had met this guy two other times when I was over at my friends helping him dart deer.When he seen us that day he was surprised and asked if we would like a tour of the place.As soon as we drove through the main hunt gates there were rolls off fence...You go up a little further rolls of fence...constant reminders that it isn't "outside"...He had hunters coming the next day.

I understand needing rolls of fence and equipment in there, but maybe try and hide it with a few downed trees or something...

Also we all have a friend or relative that hates hf hunting...Talk to them, bring them in... see through there eyes why and what would need changed ...I know I am not against them and I seen several things I didn't like...If I was paying money, I want it to be a nice retreat in a natural looking setting not a constant reminder they are not wild...I was just thinking if one comes in and doesn't like it, how many could he tell...

Maybe send out questionnaires to clients/past clients asking what they would change or like to see different...

Put out fliers and questionnaires in hunting stores... top page have FREE (180?) CLASS HUNT FOR....asking why people are not hunting hf hunts give away a free hunt for a large deer for the (2000th one returned ect whatever)

We need to talk to these people...Just my two cents

Applecreek Scott said:

Wisdom,

I like your call to ranches re-directing our efforts producing videos enhancing the whitetail hunting experience. Lets begin listing all the different videos that could be developed.



Example



#1 Hunter very reluctant to try Apple creek last fall booked late December. After two days taking home his 190" buck he called to say (how different is high fence hunting from how the DNR operates raising Salmon than stocking Lake MI, raising walleyes, muskies, and many other fish than to stock lakes and regulate when and how they are caught. Apple Creek thanks for fulfilling my dream. I spent the last 12 years hunting with no chance os seeing mature bucks.)



Scott

Click to expand...

There should be a lot of emphasis put on "mature bucks". I talk with a lot of hunters in our area, and like other areas, they say the bucks just aren't big out in the wild any more. I do my part in trying to educate them about managing their hnting property--picking and choosing which bucks to take each year that will better help the genetics in their area. I then talk about HF hunting preserves- and how they are managed so there are always mature bucks available to the hunters. Too many hunteres hunt by the "brown it's down rule". HF hunting preserves have this amazing aspect to offer hunters that you can rarely find in the wild. enough land to actually manage what is shot. Food Plots that are taken care of properly for an animals food needs. And a High Fence to keep all the "brown it's down " hunters out of there (not for trappping the deer in a small area). (there is a lot more , but these are the topics that end up being of most interest for hunters that I talk with.)

A lot of people that I have talked with have said " don't they just shoot a buck over a feeder" . This is what a lot of people think. They are really misinformed. after visiting with people about what a hunting preserve has to offer, and letting people realize that they aren't 1 acre hunts, many change their opinion quickly of the hunting preserves.

A little education in the right places will go a long way. I live up in the middle of nowhere and see a small # of people to get the chance to visit on this topic. My brother Steve Porter and his traveling deer reach out to alot of people , and now with the many schools he goes to, he is educating a lot of our future hunters.

I think an effort in the schools is a very efficient way to educate people(youth) on the hunting preserve issue. wether it be Steve with his attraction of live deer with him, or special events held at school, it is source of education for all of our future hunters that shoudn't be over looked.

Get a kid excited about something and just watch how many people he tells. It is a great oppurtinity for a positive outlook on hunting preserves.

That's all for now,

thanks,

We were typing at the same time...I have went to schools for many years and done lecture on many thingto many different types of People. I brought this up a few pages back and was told kids don't pay to hunt...Their parents do...I have been contacted MANY times after school lecture from parents...And they aren't kids forever...They need there eyes open to it while young... I will go into schools advertising preserves but need info on them...I put that offer up a while back...no one called...I have had churches,boy scouts, and even one business brought their employees here because they made several things for me and thought deer farming was neat...I can't advertise preserves because... I don't know them...Nobody called.

It is true that kids don't pay to hunt, but , why should we let them be corrupted by things that aren't true about preserves for years to come. Painted Meadows is right, They aren't kids forever. Someone mention earlier about a 3 stage plan for a campaign. educating our youth would be a 3rd stage to help protect our futures. One great thing is that the youth of today would also help us out in the now by telling letting parents/others know what they have learned. I do realize that not every kid is going to be excited about hunting, but there are some who will. I think getting into schools with atleast some type of 1 hr. liceum would be a very cost efficient way of educating people, not just the kids. And also advertising. Any preserve willing to sponsor speakers or activities pertaining to preserves could be promoted at these events. I don't have a preserve but I would be willing to go further with this idea. wether it be sponsoring an activity or helping out with some. This can be more effective than people realize. Painted Medows, I have only been to one preserve in my life. It would be worth it for all involved to take a week or so and visit various preserves and learn from them. we should also have a preserve owner on board with this idea. Any volunteers?

It would be nice to get a group of volunteers together and go over what would all have to be done to line up atleast 25? schools a year for an activity/lecture. I would love to help out with this. Let's keep this going. Things to think about what to have with for a lecture/activity?

main attraction (I was thinking replicas of our world record bucks. Something to really get attention.



hunting vid handouts?

flyers?

any more suggestions?

I am up for anything give me a call anyone interested in doing anything...(724)735-99245 or [email protected] I'll see if I can help...I am going to get in touch with the deer lecture guy ...I wanted to educate kids about deer a few years back, but only had them as pets...

Lets get this rolling times a wastin



Instead of CWD the deer industry should worry about CWH

Chronically Waiting for Hunters...We need to go get them

Here's an idea that is a little different than everyone has been talking about. It would be a way of getting the info out without having to pay for it....reality TV. Somehow get the Discovery or History channel to do a series of North American deer farming much like they do ice road truckers, the loggers out west, or even Orange County Choppers. It could showcase different farms and show different aspects of the whole operation from fawns to bucks, hunts and even the many different personalitys. Get someone like Ted Nugent to host and travel the country to different farms and preserves. Surely someone knows someone that knows someone to get it started. With all the people on this forum and all the incredible deer, there would be alot of material to work with.....all without charging a tax or fee.

2riv said:

There should be a lot of emphasis put on "mature bucks". I talk with a lot of hunters in our area, and like other areas, they say the bucks just aren't big out in the wild any more. I do my part in trying to educate them about managing their hnting property--picking and choosing which bucks to take each year that will better help the genetics in their area. I then talk about HF hunting preserves- and how they are managed so there are always mature bucks available to the hunters. Too many hunteres hunt by the "brown it's down rule". HF hunting preserves have this amazing aspect to offer hunters that you can rarely find in the wild. enough land to actually manage what is shot. Food Plots that are taken care of properly for an animals food needs. And a High Fence to keep all the "brown it's down " hunters out of there (not for trappping the deer in a small area). (there is a lot more , but these are the topics that end up being of most interest for hunters that I talk with.)

A lot of people that I have talked with have said " don't they just shoot a buck over a feeder" . This is what a lot of people think. They are really misinformed. after visiting with people about what a hunting preserve has to offer, and letting people realize that they aren't 1 acre hunts, many change their opinion quickly of the hunting preserves.

A little education in the right places will go a long way. I live up in the middle of nowhere and see a small # of people to get the chance to visit on this topic. My brother Steve Porter and his traveling deer reach out to alot of people , and now with the many schools he goes to, he is educating a lot of our future hunters.

I think an effort in the schools is a very efficient way to educate people(youth) on the hunting preserve issue. wether it be Steve with his attraction of live deer with him, or special events held at school, it is source of education for all of our future hunters that shoudn't be over looked.

Get a kid excited about something and just watch how many people he tells. It is a great oppurtinity for a positive outlook on hunting preserves.

That's all for now,

thanks,

Click to expand...

Thank you Tom, I like that mature buck angle. HA guys help us come up with a bunch more like this one. Little tidbits of info like this to get hunters off the fence

[quote name='RWalkJr']For an effective marketing campaign that would go national will cost around 1.5-2 million a year for a minimum of 5 years. This is only a projected estimate that is coming from some people I'm talking with that do marketing for a living. One thing is for sure to expedite the process the more money we have the more effective we will be.



Last year Walk's Premier Whitetails and S&S Whitetail Galore bought the $250,000 lot at the Mid West Sale in support of Keith's new show. We will be unable to continue to make such investments forever like these but will need your generosity for Keith's show to be as effective as it can.





I believe it was $150,000 not 250K........I think that is correct since Joe Peachy and myself bought the other lot at the same price. Sure hope I'm correct!!!!!!!! Big difference!

I spoke with a friend yesterday and he mentioned asking the MNDBA get a booth to promote deer farming at our annual deer classic in the Twin cities. Great idea. Why not try and fund a booth in every major sporting/hunting expo across the country to promote deer farming and hunting preserves. This would be a great way to speak,educate and advertise to TODAY'S hunters. I think getting face to face with people is the most effective way to educate. These huge shows target outdoorsmen. I think it would be a great oppurtunity to speak with the hunters of today . Just a thought.

Wisdom,

It was great speaking with you.......let me know if you would like me to come down this week and do some filming of your hunts. I believe you said you had some going on this Wednesday. i'd be willing to come down and film obviously at know cost.......As we discussed if we don't start compiling this footage right now we will be another year waiting to get this up off the ground. Shoot me an email also and we will set-up the hunt we were talking about Wisdom my email is [email protected] ..........Russ Walk JR. we have a lot of people here just waiting to help in anyway they can. We need an update on where things stand when you can.....I know you have lots of things going on and this is just one of them but i hate for all of these offers to start going away because people start thinking nothing is being done. I know you are working your tail off trying to get this thing off and running and I commend you for your hardwork Russ........as goes for all the others that are doing their part behind the scene WISDOM!!

Most hunters have an idea in their heads what hunting high fence is like. I would think most all of them would not be accurate at all. I have been to a preserve but not to hunt and have a good idea but no first hand account of it. You can talk til you are blue in the face trying to explain it but the best way , in my opinion , it to have a video of hunters , game, deer being taken , ect and also the other aspects.....nice lodging , food , meeting new friends, time with your hunting partners.... This is the way of the present and future....video . Well made videos can be reproduced and purchased by any State , local ,farmer , or other group for presentation to the public and hunters. The National Trappers Association has done this to dispel the myths about trapping and it should work in this instance too. Footage already made by our different preserves would be ready to use components for this. Jim

Spiderman said:

Most hunters have an idea in their heads what hunting high fence is like. I would think most all of them would not be accurate at all. I have been to a preserve but not to hunt and have a good idea but no first hand account of it. You can talk til you are blue in the face trying to explain it but the best way , in my opinion , it to have a video of hunters , game, deer being taken , ect and also the other aspects.....nice lodging , food , meeting new friends, time with your hunting partners.... This is the way of the present and future....video . Well made videos can be reproduced and purchased by any State , local ,farmer , or other group for presentation to the public and hunters. The National Trappers Association has done this to dispel the myths about trapping and it should work in this instance too. Footage already made by our different preserves would be ready to use components for this. Jim

Click to expand...

Spiderman Good ideas but a lot of past video may not be workable. Most of the comments on the videos made by the hunters do not send a subliminal message targeted to people who think high fenced hunting is canned hunts. We need video of hunters talking about their experience. Instead of thank you and I will be back.

Also good buck pictured. But bad picture if the right anti high fenced hunter sees it. How close will Bamby come before we shoot him.

Its hard to convince the hunters they are wild deer when we are hand feeding them

I am not being critical wish some of mine were that tame. But I feel we must change the image of the whole industry.

Blessings

100% of the deer that do not die in our pens are shot

Attention Pa deer farmers.

We have a wounded veteran from Pittsburgh who had his leg shot off with a 50 caliber gun. The Way Outfitters is trying to sponger this hunt. At this time I feel I have a camera man who has filmed or worked for us in the past and he has agreed to do the video. The best part is he said the video could start airing on National TV as soon as December 2009.

We also have several other hunts lined up for other handycaped persons.

What I am asking for is persons willing to donate bucks so we can start to get some video.

This weekend we are blessed to serve a young man with cancer. We are donating a buck hunt hunting gear, lodging, taxidermy all at no charge. The young man was given 12 months to live by his doctors.

I know God is nudging some of your hearts as you read this to give in one way or another. Some of these kids would be thrilled just to harvest a doe.

Now at this time God is giving us the chance to give and also a chance to make quality video to help promote hunting

Hi Russ,

As you may remember, I have been running a hunting ranch for several years. The numbers are terrible, IE... If I own the land, and can bring in $100k in hunting revenue, I can buy the deer for $50k, have expenses in the $35k range, and work my tail off for $15k. If I own the land. On my last place, I had 2 200 inch bucks that ran with the rest of the deer. I sold the hunts at the same price as a 150 ($5000). I was able to get some repeat business, but eventually, the numbers worked so that if I could not raise the deer on my ranch, I could not compete. But, a lot of hunters want to hunt on 5000 acres or more, (* at $2000 an acre that is $10M). And the current television shows and several magazines like Petersons deplore high fencing or more conveniently state that they would only hunt "Fair Chase". Boone and Crockett will not recognize any game taken on a high fence, but Safari Club has set up some very fair guidelines for ethical hunting on high fenced land.



All that to say that we have to do a lot if the smaller ranches will be able to bring in higher prices clientele. Since most do not have lodging to compete with 4 star hotels, they have to offer a much better product at a more competitive price. I think that the way to win is along your lines. We need more hunters in the game. Also, we need to define "trophy" as what the hunter wants and not as a 200 inch buck that most hunters cannot possibly afford.



This is not a whine. I need to bring in around $200k in hunts to pay for expenses and make any kind of living. Or, I lease the land for cattle or sheep and make around $15k per year with a lot less headache and offer open range hunts for $1500 and no expenses. The larger deer are the attraction, so I have opted for better deer and a fence. I am starting a new ranch, and will be buying bred does, bucks and getting another quality herd started either in 2010 or 2011 depending on the economy. I also have to rid the land of common predators and lower quality deer.



If we can grow the number of hunters for trophy deer significantly, that tide will raise all of the boats in the harbor. And we all will benefit.



Other comments

1) I fight with B+C every chance I get due to their views on a fence.

2) Same for rocky mountain elk

3) Same for Peterson and other rags that only support "fair chase"

4) I support Safari Club.

5) I give away charity hunts just for the goodwill.



And I would be interested in supporting your idea. In fact, I am in high tech and we can look at production costs for a show. Believe it or not, they have come way down with the advent of high definition cameras and even some ESPN extreme sports shows are shot with only companies of 2-3 people. At the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) show this year, I met a company that shoots extreme skiing. 3 people for the entire company and they shoot several hundred hours every year. Some of the footage is packaged into shows and some is stock for movies and the like.



If any of you are interested in pushing this along, please respond back here, and we may be able to shoot footage this season. Costs are travel and such, but I can get the editing and camera work done fairly inexpensively.



Best,

Hardpan