a reply to : Cant move my doe

Larry the cable guy corrupted me with his jokes about his girlfriend that had no arms. Lord I apologize!

Seriously ugh.... I don't know what to say other than wow this doesn't do any of us any good!

Pretty touchy subject right there. Cant say i would have done what he did but i can say the deer left on the place may find their way out of the farm somehow before the sharpshooters come in.  Somebody has to stand up to these states that think they can just say...Oh well, We are just going to come in and kill all your deer because of a disease that other states are willingly letting out of pens into the wild!!!  I would call Bullsh!t myself..Cut the fences down and chase them out to the Ohio deer hunters. Then spend my 30 days with no regrets!  Thats a bunch of bull right there!

If the state issues (and I understand they did issue) a permit to ship deer to his place how is he in the wrong??? Maybe the state should get their ducks in order. Just sayin....

Roger,

You know the state isn't going to let any of this fall on them! Regardless of what they allowed they will construe the truth to avoid any potential responsibility!

They  are using a quarantine violation on another farm to get him to depopulate the preserve.

roger, they could ship to the preserve not his breeding farm. Big difference.


All I have to say is karma is a *****.

And anybody who would side with the chronic habitual crook over the dept of ag needs their head examined, period. I'm not saying they are perfect but geesh.

I am not siding with anyone so kiss my ***!

A vet unknowingly requested a shipping permit number from the state to a quarantined farm and was issued the number. My understanding is the state knows they screwed up in this mess also.

This is not about taking sides, it is about how the hell can the gov expect us to follow every single rule to the letter and keep all our paperwork in order yet they don't even know themselves what farm is quarantined or not. And they call around the country asking for copies of shipping certs. What do they do with all those copies the vets prepare???

Some of you are so glad this guy got nailed that your willing to roll over and let the gov continue to play dictators and destroy the industry! Like an animal eating it's own young!

So someone just decided to ship a whitetail to his farm and he didn't know it was coming???? Come on. No they shouldn't have given the permit and that was somebody's fault, but you really have to lay all the blame on them????

He did not have the opportunity to TAKE me but has just about everybody I know. So let's just keep people like that in the business and support them. That make a lot of sense. The problem is, is that this person has been allowed to continue to rip people off continually because NOBODY EVER CALLS PEOPLE LIKE THIS OUT!!!!! It is almost like dishonesty in this industry is like the status quo and allowed to thrive!!!! I really don't care if you like my opinion (or me) or not. I will never support a DISHONEST person. Why do you think this industry is in the shape it is in? If the unethical people were gone it would be a lot easier for this industry to stand up against our opponents. This is not about the department of ag and shouldn't be. Truth be known what they are telling us is only the top of the iceberg.

I agree with Jerrilee, our industry needs to do a better job of policing itself otherwise our opposition is going to try and do it. If we have the stones to expose and define the corrupt we will strengthen our industry and ameliorate our industries image in the eyes of the public. This industry needs to form a preserve council. We all need to examine all of the facts before making bold statements. There is a lot more to this story.

Jonathan

I'm already hating myself for entering the fray here... but, as someone who hasn't been taken advantage of by this person I can perhaps offer a less emotional response.  I do feel awful for anyone that's been screwed over in this industry... these are tough lessons to learn, and I've been there myself! That being said, I completely agree that the dishonest people in our industry should be held accountable... period!  Second, I get Roger's point completely.  It's ridiculous that the states have no idea what is going on in our industry, yet we are to be held to standards that they have imposed (obviously on a Federal level as well).  And I didn't see his point as taking that crooks side in any way.  

Crook or not if you dont stand up for the CWD part. Not the farmer part, then you are helping nothing. I really hope that if he has done what some say he gets his return but i also hope that he beats this killing of all those deer in the name of right and wrong. I hope he has the stones to dispose of those deer before they are just killed in the CWD game when other states are releasing the same crap out to the wild and the public. I know a wrong does not fix a wrong but i swear i cant say what i would do in that same place but i promise you the state of Ny would not be killing them.

Wouldnt we be missing an oppurtunity as far as euthanasia of the deer?  Eldon 

Bruns Island Whitetails998981417576626



Wouldnt we be missing an oppurtunity as far as euthanasia of the deer?  Eldon 




Why should they be killed at all?  I mean they dont know if they all have CWD just like they dont know if all of Wind Cave elk have CWD or the states that are restocking their states with untested elk. Seems to me the animals that may have it behind fence are less of a threat than the ones on the outside?

This is where a live test is soooooo important. We can all say that we don't want them to kill our animals. The only way that will not happen IS A LIVE TEST. Look at the brakkes, 80% infected. If animals could have been tested and culled it would have been interesting to see how many were positive when the first case was found. right now the brakke blood tests are sitting in a freezer because the government will not let the researchers run the tests.

We also need genetic testing for markers for cwd resistance, just like scrapies in sheep. Do we really want a pen full of animals with cwd??? I know Rhonda didn't and I don't think any of us do. If we expect to be able to live with cwd then we need these two things.

WillPenn Whitetails998961417569838

I'm already hating myself for entering the fray here... but, as someone who hasn't been taken advantage of by this person I can perhaps offer a less emotional response.  I do feel awful for anyone that's been screwed over in this industry... these are tough lessons to learn, and I've been there myself! That being said, I completely agree that the dishonest people in our industry should be held accountable... period!  Second, I get Roger's point completely.  It's ridiculous that the states have no idea what is going on in our industry, yet we are to be held to standards that they have imposed (obviously on a Federal level as well).  And I didn't see his point as taking that crooks side in any way.



Glad someone saw my point was about the gov and not about the farmer.

jerrilee cave999001417582208



This is where a live test is soooooo important. We can all say that we don't want them to kill our animals. The only way that will not happen IS A LIVE TEST. Look at the brakkes, 80% infected. If animals could have been tested and culled it would have been interesting to see how many were positive when the first case was found. right now the brakke blood tests are sitting in a freezer because the government will not let the researchers run the tests.

We also need genetic testing for markers for cwd resistance, just like scrapies in sheep. Do we really want a pen full of animals with cwd??? I know Rhonda didn't and I don't think any of us do. If we expect to be able to live with cwd then we need these two things.




True but point being...Untill someone stands up to them it will never change.Like it or not, we are living with CWD because it effects every single thing you do on your farm!!! Is CWD doing anything...To Anything? No, And we will be living with CWD untill something big like all states with CWD cant sell hay or grains anywhere in the world. Why the hell can i in upstate Ny end up with a piece of corn or a bale of alfalfa bought from a store loaded with CWD prions,harvested in the state loaded with CWD and shipped to stores to infect my own deer which in turn the state says they are going to kill??  Bullsh!t...Im telling ya i would meet them with guns a blazin and you would see my name in every paper across the country. Im afraid untill that happens we are going to continue to take it....You Know Where!

Simple case where the government made all the rules, and now can't live by, or follow them, themselves.  We ran into that here, when our state zoo asked to bring in unmonitored animals into the zoo.  We granted them an exemption, but why doesn't a government entity have to live by the same rules we do??


 


One thing I want to point out about Brakke's.  These animals were probably less than 5% clinical.  These animals looked as healthy as any of ours.  Around 51% tested brainstem positive.  Which is by definition what is called a CWD positive.  Around 28% of these animals where lymph node positive only.  By definition, these animals did not have CWD!!  They only carried the infectious agent that COULD HAVE turned into CWD.  Would all of these animals turned into CWD positives?  Without a live test there is no way to prove that.  We have allowed the government to "assume this".  Remember that 21% of the animals showed nothing!!!  Were these animals resistant, or immune??  Would they have never got CWD??  They had the same exposure as the others.  We missed a great opportunity in this herd for further research!!!   When the first case was detected, a sampling of the herd showed a 7% lymph node [no positive brain stems]   positive ONLY result.  The preserve showed only a 3% infection rate after depopulation.  Yet with these low rates they were still not allowed movement.  That's a lot lower rate than the 30-40% rate at Wind Cave, and they didn't think that was a large rate of risk to release them to the wild.   I'm getting tired of government double-standards.

Gary,


You are preaching to the choir. It is our leadership in this industry that needs to stand up and fight for the people in it. Just sitting back and saying everything will be ok does not cut it with the government. the same old status quo keeps rearing its ugly head. until the people of this industry stand up to our association leaders and say this is what we want nothing will change. we need a panel of people aggressively working towards this goal one person cannot do it all.this industry will never flourish again until major changes are made.most of us need our heads examined for being in it right now.