a reply to : Cant move my doe

Can some one explain the protocol that is used for trace-backs, trace-outs, and quarantine by animal health agencies or AG departments? What are the guidelines that dictate how these policies are administered? Should not our industries leaders be involved with the USDA in deciding the parameters for quarantine issues?

I am beginning to wonder why a preserve would risk buying hunt bucks from farms in a CWD state due to the risk to their own property of being quarantined.

Four Seasons Whitetails999031417613238



True but point being...Untill someone stands up to them it will never change.Like it or not, we are living with CWD because it effects every single thing you do on your farm!!! Is CWD doing anything...To Anything? No, And we will be living with CWD untill something big like all states with CWD cant sell hay or grains anywhere in the world. Why the hell can i in upstate Ny end up with a piece of corn or a bale of alfalfa bought from a store loaded with CWD prions,harvested in the state loaded with CWD and shipped to stores to infect my own deer which in turn the state says they are going to kill??  Bullsh!t...Im telling ya i would meet them with guns a blazin and you would see my name in every paper across the country. Im afraid untill that happens we are going to continue to take it....You Know Where!




I have to go with Mike on this one!


My Agent and Myself have had this conversation at length......................Until someone draws a line in the sand and dares them to cross it................They will!


Why do these Agents come onto OUR Farms carrying a firearm to do an inspection? Leave it in the truck ? I'm not a criminal ? I don't walk them threw my pens packin a gun ? 


We are treated worse on OUR OWN PROPERTY........................By Agents that WE pay their salaries ?


 


And has ANYONE died from CWD ? Has a DEER ever DIED of CWD ? Are there Less deer in States with high numbers of CWD ? Are some of the "Top" animals harvested every year NOT from States that have had CWD for YEARS???


You can fly in and out of Africa where an actual know "DEADLY Virus" is and that's relatively Ok ?


 


My agent, My Neighbors and My Family....................All know.................I will protect MY land, My Family and My Livestock, Pets, Personal Property and "My little corner of the world" and Will NOT BE BULLIED on MY PROPERTY by ANYONE'S ********!


 


I may go to Jail..........But I raised my children telling them "I would go to jail for what I believe in"............Would YOU ?

Bell999111417650203



Can some one explain the protocol that is used for trace-backs, trace-outs, and quarantine by animal health agencies or AG departments?

I am beginning to wonder why a preserve would risk buying hunt bucks from farms in a CWD state due to the risk to their own property of being quarantined.




 Also would you sell bucks to a positive preserve, if they were allowed to continue to operate?   What if your bucks got CWD, in the preserve, with trace-backs as they are, would you take the risk?

Whitetail Sanctuary999121417651999

I have to go with Mike on this one!

My Agent and Myself have had this conversation at length......................Until someone draws a line in the sand and dares them to cross it................They will!

Why do these Agents come onto OUR Farms carrying a firearm to do an inspection? Leave it in the truck ? I'm not a criminal ? I don't walk them threw my pens packin a gun ? 

We are treated worse on OUR OWN PROPERTY........................By Agents that WE pay their salaries ?

 

And has ANYONE died from CWD ? Has a DEER ever DIED of CWD ? Are there Less deer in States with high numbers of CWD ? Are some of the "Top" animals harvested every year NOT from States that have had CWD for YEARS???

You can fly in and out of Africa where an actual know "DEADLY Virus" is and that's relatively Ok ?

 

My agent, My Neighbors and My Family....................All know.................I will protect MY land, My Family and My Livestock, Pets, Personal Property and "My little corner of the world" and Will NOT BE BULLIED on MY PROPERTY by ANYONE'S ********!

 

I may go to Jail..........But I raised my children telling them "I would go to jail for what I believe in"............Would YOU ?


Oh Wayne, if you only knew how crazy it is how travel to Africa is treated versus CWD. I wish I could speak out on this topic!

IndependenceRanch999151417654677



Oh Wayne, if you only knew how crazy it is how travel to Africa is treated versus CWD. I wish I could speak out on this topic!




Rodger, I can only imagine as Crazy and out of control or Country is how BAD it must be in other Countries!

Gary, one thing to consider is that sooner or later if you have enough deer, you will find a positive.  We have concluded that other than a really small farmer, most folks sometime in their lifetime will eventually get a positive animal.  The odds are just in favor of it.  If you have a preserve, you would be very happy that you were allowed to continue business.  I don't know about selling deer to a preserve that has positives, but hopefully sooner or later there will be a test or a vaccine.  I read an article the other day about a vaccine that is being tested in Colorado on elk.  It is a several year study, but so far so good.  We'll see where that goes. 

Wild Rivers,  I agree 100% with you.  preserves should be allowed to stay in business.  I think we should be able to farm through a case of CWD, and come out whole afterwards.  This policy of crash and burn when one case show up in a herd is ridiculous.   The problem with a preserve that comes down with a positive, is, who would want to sell to that preserve?  With trace-backs as they are, it is risky for a breeder.

With 5 years forward and back how do you know....if you sell a buck to a preserve that is clean and they are positive 2 years later...you get looked at. Just hope they killed and tested your deer...no way to know where they are going to pop up. Only way to protect yourself...don't move any deer and don't test...hard to do business that way...

Were these quarantine and trace-back protocols put in place by pointy heads like Patricia Kline and John R.Fischer with a planned agenda? Did they calculate that eventually it would destroy us all?

Absolutely.   Patty Kline and John Fischer are not stupid people.  This was all very calculated.   They knew that they couldn't just shut down our industry.  But with patience, they knew they could severely cripple our industry, to the point it could not function.  


It seems to be working, our state is the 5th most populated with deer farms, and we lost over 120 cervid farms in the last 2 years.  That's 20%, that have gone out of business.


 Our state Vet. warned us that the "Standards" program were designed to put us out of business, by over regulation.  He even was on a conference call and expressed this to our association leaders.  He was chastised on this call for expressing his views.  He even told us if we were "united" on this, Dr. Clifford was prepared to throw the program out.  As we know this did not happen.  No Unity.  


We were told the opposite, and painted a rosy picture,  We were told that this program would keep states open, and the "Standards" weren't that bad.  Some of us fought this hard, and we were called "anti-association".  "We were preaching the sky was falling".  " The industry was doing great,  just look at the sales".  "That the membership wanted this program."


 I have talked to a lot of people, and I don't know anyone that is happy with it.    Well, after watching the Buckeye, I don't think it looks to rosy.   It will be interesting to see how the Chupp sale does next week.


 If you don't like this program, you need to express your view to those that wanted it.  You keep electing them, and give them raises.  


We were told that if we didn't like things, "we could fix them afterward".  Any proposals to change the program has to start at USAHA.  We have a cervid farm committee.  Guess who also sits on this committee?  Dr. John Fischer.  I signed in right behind Patty Kline.  Where she signed in, she indicated she would like to serve on this committee.  WOW,  if both of those two got on our cervid farm committee, how many positive changes do you think we will get to fix this??  


 


Sorry for venting here now, but there is no point to complain on this site, when you should have been speaking out to our leaders before they shoved this down our throats.

whoa whoa whoa Gary, I'm sorry but TO ME there is NO INDICATION by a upper end sale where this industry is at. When you have top 30 people swapping money and no new people buying it is a very false sense of anything. You can sell something for 10K and buy for 10K and there is no real gain to this industry except money in the pocket of the people that run the sale. The real indicators are the lower end sales and the shooter market of where this industry is at. The shooter market is soft at best and the lower end sales are at times pitiful. When the market is for 150-180 inch bucks and you can only get $1500- 2000 for them who can stay in business??? Now I see a lot of these people advertise their hunts are for $6000. Are they really??? or are they discounting them. If they are I can see them offering less but if they are getting 6K then the producer is the loser today and we all lose tomorrow/on down the line. I know what my feed costs are and what it takes to get them to 2 or 3. Then you are going to lose animals, no way around it. It is hard for this industry to reach a happy medium. One would have thought with the huge loses to EHD the last 2 years that there would have been a shortage of bucks last year and this year. But when people are offering you less than last year, is it the fact that they are selling hunts for less or is it because there are too many bucks???? If that many people are getting out, such as your state, then there should be a shortage of bucks one would think. Then ADD all the instances you point out in your post on top of this industry. If there is a surplus of bucks then supply and demand will even out at some point. Is that why farms are going out of business or the regulations??? All I know is there is strength in numbers and the less number of farmers the less chance we have of righting the ship.

All I know, is that these trace-backs are going to kill this industry.

You are right about that, that's for sure. How do we know what a herd like the brakkes would have LOOKED like in 4,6 or 10 years from now???? All we hear about are the skinny starving animals. 2 years post finding the infection they were healthy. How many years was it really there???? 3-4??? Or more??? Sure long enough to outlive a hunt bucks life span. How do we REALLY know what it means unless there is more research??? These rules are made on assumptions not science.

In the studies of scrapie,some of the sheep were documented to have lived full life spans with scrapie and then died of other natural causes. Is this why the blood from Brakke's animals is frozen? Why has Patty Kline stopped the research? Has this question been answered?

Bell999381417793836



In the studies of scrapie,some of the sheep were documented to have lived full life spans with scrapie and then died of other natural causes. Is this why the blood from Brakke's animals is frozen? Why has Patty Kline stopped the research? Has this question been answered?




Better question would be why has she not been called out or sued.  Until people get called out it will stay swept under the rug. 

Obviously the powers that be do not want us to have a blood test. Hopefully nadefa is on top of that mountain screaming for them to be processed!!!!

Mike

If we as industry remove from our herds animals that are not resistant as the sheep farmers did, wildlife and conservation groups will then have an inferior animal. I believe this is her real fear.

Jonathan you can look at it another way too is that over TIME their herd will be genetically selected but will take MUCH longer due to the length of incubation and death from cwd.

John Fischer and Patty Kline understand we have at our disposal the high fence as a management tool. We would have the opportunity to immediately have a superior animal to what is in the wild. They detest this idea.

Bell999441417798974



John Fischer and Patty Kline understand we have at our disposal the high fence as a management tool. We would have the opportunity to immediately have a superior animal to what is in the wild. They detest this idea.




Yeah well guess what...We all have the tool to make our animals outside our fences and much superior animal and if they think that there are not people out there that would let their animals run before they would let them get shot i'm afraid they are dead wrong.  


 


Just think for a second that they won this fight and we no longer had a deer industry to buy,sell and raise animals. What would folk do with their deer?  What would i do with 100 head of whitetails?  I have my answer for that. Does anyone else?