What do you think our industry needs!!!!!!!!!

Hi guy's, I read every post on this thread, well what happened?? Like missing the last chapter of a good book!



I am curious since I survived, (barely) the Ratite market, we where deep into it.

Western..if you survived the Ratite market you are one in a hundred. I know, I would be most curious how you did it.

Well Fars, I survived because when it was over, I still had my truck!! kidding of coarse.



Luckily we had a magazine and a slaughter facility that gave us an extra way to bring in revenue. Breeder markets hardly ever do "great" after the "big rush" is over. If you aren't set up to run a tight budget ( many ways to do this) and/or an avenue to liquidate you will get caught with your britches down.



Ours was a family business, I managed the ranch 100%, also the stock buying, showing, training new breeders, you know, the whole thing. My father Managed the magazine, and slaughter sales, set up and shipping/buying.



I went from buying some of our breeder pairs for 240k to luckily having a contact in Mexico that I could "dump" all my birds for the hides for $150 each! the last 100 birds I gave to them rather than maintain the feed program. Just shutting down the incubators and hatcher's saved over 2K.



We saw it coming when the market went from our door being knocked down by buyers, to the point we had to make ton's of calls just to find potential buyers.



In the beginning the type of buyer we had, where the very wealthy or successful business people, who saw a way to increase that wealth and success by getting into a new market share at it's beginning. I think in any animal endeavor that is where the big money is, in the beginning when other investor/breeders see an opportunity to make $$. In the end I had to give some away.



I have opinions on animal farming that offend some people. When we had seminars at our farm, I had a couple of investors get upset about some of the "cautions" I would suggest. Breeders always start at the top of the money scale and end up on the bottom, In my honest opinion.



Obviously there are a few things in my opinion, but I don't want to bore you to death..LOL or get yelled at LOL. I've been "kicked, drug and ran over" to many times.. I've seen this with Limousin cattle at my grandfathers, the Ratite business for 12 years and I see allot of similarity in what I read on these forums.



To say I survived is a "loose" statement. I think the biggest mistake people make is letting the business end, turn emotional. Passion is one thing, emotion will get you every time.



I could rattle on for ever, but I'm not a good typist. Love talking animals though and wouldn't mind raising a few deer, BUT... Sorry for "running long"

Western, no apology needed. I reallly appricate the information. I think it will be very valuable to many in the coming years. Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

In Missouri, we are trying to promote the concept of "High Fence, Fair Chase hunting". We offer several hunts on large acre preserves that are not guranteed. The hunter pays a set fee no matter what he takes. And there are no upgrade charges no matter what he takes. We are trying to appeal to the hunter that spends a fair aount of money on the so called low-fence outfitted hunt that usually only offers a slim chance at a mature buck.



As far as comparing ratites to whitetails, there is no comparison. As far as I know, there are no popular ratite hunting preserves. Also haven't heard of two many guys being ate up with "ratite fever". If there is no end market, then there can never be a viable breeding market. Comparing ratites to lamas or some of those other hobby exotics might be a better comparison. The Whitetail Deer Industry has been strong for over 20 years. Thats hardly a short trend!



I can guarantee the breeders that if they will produce high quality bucks, some one will come knocking, even in a bad economy.



We need to do three things as an industry:



1. Promote High Fenced Hunting. Anyway we can!



2. Educate the people who are niether for us or against us, they make up the majority. And they will eventually decide our fate!



3. Defend our rights. If you don't know what to do simply join nadefa and your state organization. Be proud of what we do and stand up to those that oppose us!



If we do those things, the breeding market will take care of itself.



With the drop in the prices the breeding market has adjusted back to more in line with the hunting market and the hunting market has a great opportunity to sieze a bigger share of the hunting that is done by "Our average" hunters.



Just some thoughts from a crazy ole whitetail fanatic!

SWEET post Sam! I totally agree.

I wasn't comparing Ratites to Deer. I am merely saying that business principles are the same, (in any animal business)



When the "big rush" starts, there is allot of money to be made for breeders, but at some point the market will shift more toward the end user or product.



BTW. Ostriches had a very good "end user" product ,the Hide. Second toughest hide in the world after Elephant, but easier to get. Add the cost of tanning, shipping, well you guy's know the drill, then add a flooded market after 15 years and the breeder drawing dollars diminished, The hide market was also flooded. At that point all the cost associated with getting a bird to 2yoa was more than the tannery was willing to pay.



Again not comparing to deer, just the parallel of "supply and demand". those are 2 variables you can't control 100% unless you are few.

Okay so I've read the post from three years ago I want to know what happen if anything and why I haven't heard of any of these GREAT IDEAS COMING TO FLOURITION? If there's a good reason why this didn't happen please explain. If it did happen and failed please explain. If this didn't happen because talk is cheap I'm disgusted! I saw very respected members have great idea's why is this not happening? Here's another idea now that I'm done crying (man I hope this happened and I'm an *****) let's propose a donation system through the exchange???? Also I'm just getting going but I'd be more than willing to let the does raise a few doe fawns each year that I know I would probably cull anyway for a donation doe hunt!!! I just read a post about putting cull does in the freezer no excuse that we couldn't donate those for the hunting ranches to in turn increase our end product! Sorry if I'm out of line but my goodness if you read this thread It's exciting!

Memory Lane Farms889341385631333



Okay so I've read the post from three years ago I want to know what happen if anything and why I haven't heard of any of these GREAT IDEAS COMING TO FLOURITION? If there's a good reason why this didn't happen please explain. If it did happen and failed please explain. If this didn't happen because talk is cheap I'm disgusted! I saw very respected members have great idea's why is this not happening? Here's another idea now that I'm done crying (man I hope this happened and I'm an *****) let's propose a donation system through the exchange???? Also I'm just getting going but I'd be more than willing to let the does raise a few doe fawns each year that I know I would probably cull anyway for a donation doe hunt!!! I just read a post about putting cull does in the freezer no excuse that we couldn't donate those for the hunting ranches to in turn increase our end product! Sorry if I'm out of line but my goodness if you read this thread It's exciting!




 


Wow..Is this ever a flashback. Thats cool you dug this up.  First thing i did was to look at these posters to see who is even still in the business. I think in the last 3 years things have changed for the better with the hunting behind fence part of it.  If you read the states hunting websites you will see many hunters complain about no deer...small deer and to much orange in the woods   Many even admit that hunting is turning into a rich mans sport when it comes to hunting good deer...ie, Private land to lease and outfitters.  We are being accepted more by the public, Now we have to fight the CWD crap that states use against us because it is the states that are losing money on deer tags from the publicand our ranches are out of bucks and making money.  We need to work with our states to grow.  Just try to find any buck behind fence in New York State to hunt!   We are sold out and now cant get any in.  We will grow from the inside for 5 years while they shut us down and will be bigger and stronger than ever when the 5 years is over.   I think it all rests with you and your state.  Make them happy and you will be happy!!!!!! 


 HAPPY TURKEY DAY ALL.....

I for one see no reason why each state organization along with nadefa couldn't give away doe hunts at sportsman events across the country, in order to bring what It's all about to folks who may have never had the chance to hunt on a game ranch!!! If It's free the general public will have no reason to not enjoy it. As long as it is held at a reputable Ranch!!! And in turn they will share this positive experience with other's. This could have a very large SNOWBALL EFFECT...... That's good for all of us!

Memory Lane Farms889751385854628

I for one see no reason why each state organization along with nadefa couldn't give away doe hunts at sportsman events across the country, in order to bring what It's all about to folks who may have never had the chance to hunt on a game ranch!!! If It's free the general public will have no reason to not enjoy it. As long as it is held at a reputable Ranch!!! And in turn they will share this positive experience with other's. This could have a very large SNOWBALL EFFECT...... That's good for all of us!


Couldn't agree with you more. Have often thought we should offer free cull hunts to the youth. Get them involved with a good experience. Donate to the state SCI chapters, leukemia society, cancer society and make a wish programs.

Wisdom... Could a single entity get this license so that we could do a venture like this nationwide? Obviously the industry had folks that wanted this...Why let a licensing issue stop us? As for those board members against this idea I hope a vote has since changed the leadership roles. As for those who shot this idea down well to be Frank I'm calling you out.... WHY???? Rhonda I love your idea about charitable works make a wish etc.... Well it might have been shot down but I've been knocked off a horse and well I still ride every chance I get! THIS IS BY NO MEANS MY IDEA BUT I'M ALL IN LET'S ACTUALLY RALLY TO GET THIS DONE!!! Imagine the good press from raising x amount of dollars for make a wish and others!!!!

Tom and I actually did donate hunts to these various groups. Maybe the raffle made it too much work. We donated youth hunts with requirement that the youth had to be accompanied by an adult. You make a wonderful positive impression not only for the youngster but his adult companion. Had very positive experiences. Not only did the young hunter learn about hunting and the importance of deer management, but got to see some trophies too. I know there are others that are doing similar activities.

Wisdom,

I am by no means trying to kick a sleeping dog! I will also support those elected even if I didn't vote for them. Will address President Obama as Mr. President if I ever had the opportunity! But I refuse to just go with the flow cause that's easier! If the powers that be had a very legitimate reason or reasons for their actions I would like to hear those reasons! On another note since we've come a little further down the line, is there anyone else who sees this idea as a very positive way to go about introducing our end market to the public?

Memory Lane Farms890271386031923



Wisdom,

I am by no means trying to kick a sleeping dog! I will also support those elected even if I didn't vote for them. Will address President Obama as Mr. President if I ever had the opportunity! But I refuse to just go with the flow cause that's easier! If the powers that be had a very legitimate reason or reasons for their actions I would like to hear those reasons! On another note since we've come a little further down the line, is there anyone else who sees this idea as a very positive way to go about introducing our end market to the public?




The public knows all to well of our end market. The ones that dont agree..Will NEVER agree.  If you notice, Most states buy and sell out of stockers every year. Its no longer Joe public thats your worry. Its the places that are losing money because of our success that we have to worry about!

I agree 100% but we also have grown leaps and bounds in the last few years. I have seen many,many requests in the past few years for stocker bucks later in the hunting season and they cant be found.  Thats a good thing. The demand is there and getting better.   Yes i agree many more need to know the truth on high fence but it also shows that many are learning,,Hence no stockers to be found. 


 Like i said in another post. I have read many,many upset hunters that are pi$$ed off because of no deer.little deer and to many hunters where they hunt.  Also hunting is getting to be a rich mans sport when it comes to getting good land to hunt on.


 


Look at what your states DNR and DEC is doing,saying about high fence and you will see your biggest hill to climb.  Our state DEC is very open at bad mouthing high fence because we are selling out of hunts and they are losing money on tag sales.  If you read on another post on what Tim did to work with Ok DNR in that state that now the DNR works with the high fence industry instead of against them in that state. Its a work in progess to get the good words out for sure but you have to deal with the bigger threat.

Unity, its simple . . .

We really need to eliminate this massive CWD scare that everyone has too. Try to show them that it isnt as bad as what outsiders are trying to make it.

I totally agree with what Sam said.  He hit the nail on the head. 


 


Its time we start watching how we talk about our hunting operations.  We need to stay away from words that will give the anti a place to blast us. Our clients coming out of Texas don't think once about hunting in a high fence because that has been part of their hunting heritage for so long down there. Half of Texas is fenced and they are used to it


 


One thing I think we HAVE to do is leave the taboo subject of stocking bucks off breeding farms out of our promotion.  We stock a lot of bucks when they are just buttons and our hunters LOVE that they are hard to hunt on our Fair Chase 800+ acre hunting ranch.   

kurthumphrey892391387292887



I totally agree with what Sam said.  He hit the nail on the head. 


 


Its time we start watching how we talk about our hunting operations.  We need to stay away from words that will give the anti a place to blast us. Our clients coming out of Texas don't think once about hunting in a high fence because that has been part of their hunting heritage for so long down there. Half of Texas is fenced and they are used to it


 


One thing I think we HAVE to do is leave the taboo subject of stocking bucks off breeding farms out of our promotion.  We stock a lot of bucks when they are just buttons and our hunters LOVE that they are hard to hunt on our Fair Chase 800+ acre hunting ranch.   




Very tough to do even though i agree to a point. Our whole industry is run by the fact that we stock our bucks. Thats what fuels our whole engine.  When the word..Ranch..comes into play in some minds a million acres would still not be fair chase. A fence is a fence in those eyes.


 


I think we have gained ground in the last couple years when it comes to ranch hunting..As is proven by the fight against us by our own states dec and dnr and groups like qdma. We are gaining and they are losing.  Our biggest fight is cwd, When the light finally comes on and the people that really dont know the truth on cwd, hears the truth on cwd we will gain even more ground. I believe that is coming.  Its just been shown in science that cwd prion has been put into crows, digested  by that crow and the prions have been found in that crows waste and then passed on with positive results. That just shows that the case at the Flees ranch could have been flown into the place from the cwd positive animals outside the ranch.  We just need to make sure the PUBLIC sees the true facts and science of cwd.


 If anyone reads the crap on the qdma website you will now see that even they dont talk about the cwd on the Flees farm as the problem...They are turned inside out that there could be 350 animals on 370 acres. Thats how brain washed some people are...No way a deer can live on an acre of land!! lol