What do you think our industry needs!!!!!!!!!

<suplots of people have hunted on my ranch and have loved it more challenging than free range and lots harder to hunt no one has not had a great time and i,am on my 9th year here at T&S no complaints yet well except when they wound one and do not get there meat  ouch but those are the rules and i do not chrarge and arm and a leg come on people be reasonable you can not make all your money back on one deer </sup

Ronda you said unity is simlpe, may I ask how we achieve it. The church also needs to hear your solution to an age old problem

I certainly do not have the answers, but only my thoughts .... It takes a very long time to change public opinion. My hope is that the facts will unite people toward a common goal. Most people are followers. Sometimes more drastic measures are needed such a change in leadership.


First people need to get outside their box and remember to treat their neighbor as they would themselves. Second, if you don't like what you see work to make a change.


Unfortunately, even in churches, decisions are made behind closed doors with no voice from the congregation. It is your decision to belong to the church that best suites your beliefs.

AMEN I liked your answer. Well said

We don't have a whole lot to donate at this time but with planning we could take vacation days and give our time to help run things! I'm very passionate about this cause and will do anything I can to help!!!

Memory Lane Farms903591392337557



We don't have a whole lot to donate at this time but with planning we could take vacation days and give our time to help run things! I'm very passionate about this cause and will do anything I can to help!!!




As you need to. Young guys like yourself will be the future of this thing. There are many that could walk away and say and prove that they made a great living on deer. There is no reason that you 20 and 30 year old guys cant do the same for years to come. I really think you young guys will do even better in the future. The states are screwing up the herds so bad in most states that and their cwd excuse has proven not to have panned out for them as our removal so i believe the skys the limit for you young guys and it will be what you all make of it!

Mike,

I'm not sure where this journey will take myself and my young family, I do know that It's always risky as I've learned a very painful lesson recently!!! I also know that we are in this for the long haul and events and ideas to promote our industry will always stay a priority! I'm all in for helping our industry!

We need more people hunting!!! Take kids out hunting get them away from the video games and tv! If there is nobody hunting at hunting ranches kiss the deer farming industry good bye... We are a new hunting ranch and we are trying to get hunters booked and its tough... But were trying... We are even giving away a free 200" whitetail hunt fall of 2015 yes I said FREE!!! That's how were trying to draw hunters attention in to hunt at our ranch...

Memory Lane Farms903631392342936



Mike,

I'm not sure where this journey will take myself and my young family, I do know that It's always risky as I've learned a very painful lesson recently!!! I also know that we are in this for the long haul and events and ideas to promote our industry will always stay a priority! I'm all in for helping our industry!




That's good to hear and i know for a fact that there are many out there just like you and us that have not been here long. This is the problem i see over and over and after talking to many, many agree.


 It seems like every year when something comes up to do or help in the deer business its always the same old names you see voted or put into those spots. When you have all these people that want to help do something rather its nadefa,aca or whatever its always the same people that are already helping this great industry.


 I mean nothing to the fact that the folks that are doing the jobs are great, smart people but when these new names come up on ballots and such and you see them passed over for someone that already wears a hat or two in this industry it puts a bad taste in some mouths and then we lose them from ever helping again.


Be it time or money!!!

Fresh ideas and fresh perspectives are always good. We have been at this for a long time and know the "good old days" and today. Things are cyclical. The emphasis on growing the biggest buck was the trend but now that has changed. The breeding industry has dominated but that also is changing. It is all about the hunting. The breeding farms are the factories and the hunting preserves are the showroom. DNa and pedigrees become less and less important.


Since we started hunting back in the late 1990's until now, the high fence concept has become more and more accepted. Raising deer should be no different than raising pheasants for example. It seems to be getting there, but it is slow. Certainly some states are better at it than others given their hunting history. We agree that state DNR's are doing a very poor job of managing the wild herd which will only help us.

It won't happen overnight. Whenever we get asked if we are "fair chase" we say yes, we offer high fence fair chase hunts. Like Sam said, never be ashamed of what you do or how you do it. We offer a quality experience and offer the chance to see things most hunters won't see in a lifetime. Of course there are some people that will never accept high fence hunting. Every year we get folks that have never high fence hunted before and are very impressed with it. They often comment that they should have been doing this years ago. There are a few bad actors in our industry like any industry. Those places probably hurt us more than anything. They are the first ones the antis will point to. Organizations need to make their stance clear on that. We once heard from someone at an outdoor show that Wisconsin had a reputation for small hunting preserves!!! We had to reassure him ours was not like that. He did hunt with us and has returned several years. Hopefully he will spread the word.


On our TV show we never hesitated to show fences and it was always pretty clear about what we did and where the deer went. Our show isn't on right now as we are taking a break. Hopefully we can get back on by fall.

In my opinion the industry is currently healing itself after providing an artificial looking product to the hunter. Nobody wants to take an animal home from the hunting ranch and face the scrutiny of hunting pals while it's still laying in the back of the truck or once it's hanging in the man cave or the gal cave. We have bred a product that facilitates whispers he or she shot that in a preserve because our breeding stock is littered by characteristics that are not believed possible to have grown on a wild bucks head. This is why I believe the majority of hunters are seeking 140 to 180" 4 by 4 and 5 by 5 bucks. The whitetail is naturally a 4 by 4. I don't think we are needing any help because of economic reasons. I think it is because the genetics we have raised are not believable. I also think we as breeders could benefit by looking into the science of why each specific tine is grown. If we understood the science behind the horns of a lot in a sale catalog, we would not be vulnerable to any hype of the pedigree.

573-590-1459 - After reading these forums lately, I feel compelled to try and help everyone out. So I've set up a hot-line for helping you get rid of your mutant bucks that can barely hold their heads up. If you have one of those crazy deer that nobody wants that has 50 or more points and scores over 300, just call the number and leave your information and I'll be happy to take them off you hands. It will make us both feel better!

If I grow a 25 by 25 with 5" tines how much you give me? May have to pick him up mid July that's about the time his horns start getting smelly. Been getting 7,000 + for my clean measly ole' 200" 5 by5's. Glad y'll can import again!!! Lol

If he scores over 400, I'll give you at least 5 times as much than if he scores 170.   I'm only kidding around here with these last posts. But score does matter. I've booked over 2000 hunts in the last 20 years and almost all have been booked by score. And again, within any class of score, most hunters prefer a big typical frame. But you are right about those big 8 pointers. Super easy to sell. And a 200 inch 8 point will be shot on sight by any hunter. But how many of those do we see in the wild? As an industry we should never be ashamed of what we have accomplished. I am very proud of the fact that we can grow deer that are larger at 1 year old than anything in the wild. The wildlife people should be begging us for our genetics. Can you imagine what would happen if one state and one state only would stock the wild with our genetics. It would be the PREMIER deer hunting state in the nation. Those guys who bad mouth us would be fighting over a chance to go there. It would be interesting...LOL :lol:

Makes a big difference where you can sell your bucks. Closed border state may pay you 7 grand for a 200 but dont try that in every state. I will stick by the choices. i will have 180,typ's and 250-300 non's. That will open more doors and pay the bills nicely!  Some say pick a road and stay on it but i love to mix crazy things up and see where it goes. So far...So good!!

Sam,

Watch out all our whitetail hunters may be heading to Siberia soon. Just joking. Are they releasing all those doe they took over there into the wild? I can just see it now purchase a guided costal brown bear hunt get a guided trophy whitetail hunt free. The communist are now over here trying to tell us what to do with our deer and they have freedom over there? What a shame.

Mike,

I am not in a closed boarder state. Last year I sold my bucks to OK and the year before to IL. If they are completely clean. I have always got what I posted or more.

The reason you don't see very many 250-300 inch non-typicals in the wild is really simple, they almost always get shot at 2 or 3 years old because they DO have a little extra kicker or trash. I do about 20 wild trophy whitetail hunts per season and am lucky enough that I have a big enough area to control that I can get my bucks to 4 years old and older. I will tell you if a buck has any kind of non-typical points, kickers or drops, it is the first one everyone of my hunters wants a shot at. The world record in every category is shot every year, the only problem is the bucks are too young to reach their world record potential. To say people would rather shoot a 4x4 or 5x5 rather then a big 300 inch non-typical is totally false in my opinion. The reason more people shoot 170-200 inch preserve bucks is because most can't afford a 300 inch buck.  If a hunter has the choice of shooting a 170 or a 300 for the same price, I'm betting most of the time they are gonna shoot the 300. Like Sam says, if a 300 inch buck costs 3 times what a 170 does it's because the demand is higher and people will pay more. People love whitetails because of the different character they have from one deer to the next.


 


Cody


www.warneranches.com

I saw a DNR report several years ago that said that 79% of bucks in Minnesota were dead by 1 1/2 years.  That means that only 21% made it to 2 years!  How many of them made it to 3?


At our Deer Classic we have been floating the idea of releasing our deer to the wild.  I bet 99% of the hunters would have signed a petition to allow us to sell deer to qualified land owners, for genetic improvement.  The DNR would be totally opposed to this I know.  They think we would be polluting their deer genetics.  The DNR should be loving us and working with us instead of hating us.  Can you imagine what would happen if a 270 - 320 inch deer was shot in the wild?  It would be on the cover of every magazine.  That area would be a destination point of all out-of-state trophy hunters.  Since out-of-state tags cost around $500+, vs. local tags around $28.  It would be a boom for the DNR, local economies, etc.


Our DNR has for over 30 years, allows buck hunting the first of week of November.  This is a hunt during rut.  With bow hunting earlier, and with rut hunting, the biggest bucks get shot off every year, before breeding season.  Do they not think the hunters are passing on the smaller bucks, and shooting the larger bucks?  With this practice, aren't they manipulating the genetics for smaller racks?  Now they came up with the great idea of shooting only bucks with at least 4 points on one side.  Now aren't they genetically manipulating the herd, to not have more than 8 points?  You do enough generations of this, and they won't have bucks over 4X4.  I had yearlings last year that were 7X7's, and 3X3's.  So we as farmers would not breed with our 7X7's, but keep our 3X3's for breeders?  The practice the DNR uses is completely backwards of what we do.  Is it a wonder why we have blown the DNR deer away in just about 10 years of breeding?  We could fix their mistakes [deer herd], in just 5 years!  That's only if they would listen to us, and not practice their "tunnel vision".


Gary

I agree with most of you alls thoughts and like them. I just haven't seen a lot of potential for 250-300" deer on opening day of gun season hear in Indiana at the check stations. I also see very few deer there that have the characteristics of even a lot of our small ones. For several years both our typical and nontypical state records were from Parke county where I've hunted for years. Last fall I was at friends helping with Lap AI and another fellow who hunts religiously showed me a picture of giant non-typical he had shot with his bow. After I had told him what an awesome deer it was he said "ya everyone thinks I shot it in a preserve". I quietly ask myself was it because it was big or because it was non-typical. One cannot argue with success. If raising 300 & 400"genetics is working on your farm or hunting ranch I wish you success. My big payday will hopefully come when I have developed a line that will consistently throw 250-300 clean typical genetics. I hope someday we will be able to legally stock the wild. I am afraid by that time we will be recognized as the conservationist.